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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To report someone who has a pitbull?

352 replies

IAmNotLego · 04/01/2020 19:03

They boast about it being a pitbull, in IRL and on Facebook. Told me they weren't going to have it neutered (so it would continue to grow as big as possible), but had registered it. Surely it would need to be neutered? As part of this?

They told me they have it muzzled in public.

Second conversation. They've said it attacked 2 dogs, so has now been neutered.

I've seen the dog out in public without a muzzle and off lead..

I'm sure some will tell me to mind my own business. But I'd feel awful if something happened to another dog/animal or a child and it could have been prevented.

OP posts:
Youmakemewannashout · 07/01/2020 12:32

Pit bulls are banned in the U.K. ( Dangerous dogs act 1991). They are banned for a reason...if they do attack they can cause horrendous damage as they were bred as fighting dogs and have frighteningly strong jaws and teeth. You would be right to report the owners - if it turns out to be a different breed and the owners are just bragging then - no harm done.

frostedviolets · 07/01/2020 12:56

On the other hand, there are actual dog experts on here
You can't prove that.
It's an online site, people could be anyone.
They can say they are or so whatever..

have said repeatedly that pits are the ones that are the most dangerous, with the potential to do the greatest harm
Despite 'Pit bull type' dogs being relatively small dogs, only marginally bigger than a staffy and despite being relatively low down on the list of the highest bite strength..?

Are you trying to suggest that an angry pit bull would do more damage than say, an angry Caucasian Ovcharka or an angry Great Dane?

Because that's nonsense.

There are very many dogs far bigger and far stronger than a Pit bull that could potentially do far more damage.

frostedviolets · 07/01/2020 13:01

they can cause horrendous damage as they were bred as fighting dogs
Fighting other dogs. Not people.
They are famous for being exceptionally gentle and tolerant around people generally speaking.
Other dogs not so much.

have frighteningly strong jaws and teeth
No shit.
It's a dog.
They all have frighteningly strong jaws and teeth..
Pit bulls don't even have the strongest jaw strength and the lock jaw claim has been disproved as nonsense time and time again

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 07/01/2020 13:09

Racism is the Pits, be it towards humans or animals
Hmm You can't be racist towards a dog breed. Because a breed is bred selectively, unlike people. We haven't spent centuries breeding maths wizards or marathon runners.

Breeds have traits in appearance and behaviour, which dogs of that breed will share to a greater or lesser extent. Pit bulls were developed for dog fighting, so high rates of dog aggression are not exactly surprising. Collies herd, so it's not surprising that they nip heels. Labradors were bred to retrieve, so no surprise that most of them will fetch a tennis ball. Obviously not all dogs of a breed will display all the traits, but even so, some are more dog aggressive than others.

frostedviolets · 07/01/2020 13:16

Infact, if you look at the dog bite PSI figures, the family friendly labradors average about 230 PSI bite strength.

German Shepherds 238 PSI

Dobermann 245 PSI

Husky 320 PSI

Rottweiler 328 PSI

Akita 400 PSI

Leonburger 400 PSI

Anatolian 743 PSI

None of the above breeds banned or subject to the same hysteria.

The American Pit bull hits about 235 PSI

Youmakemewannashout · 07/01/2020 14:00

Just found this info under the title of “10 most dangerous dog breeds 2019” The Pit Bull Breed came out as Number 1....
Pit Bull Breeds
Pit Bull Breeds | Source

  1. Pit Bull Breeds

The term "pit bull" refers to a group of breeds, many of which were originally bred in England and brought to the United States for blood sports such as cockfighting, bull-baiting, bear-baiting, and dogfighting. Unfortunately, from the very beginning, these breeds (American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and the American Bulldog) were bred to fight, attack, and kill.

These breeds have strong, muscular bodies and are known to be highly protective of their owners and their owner's property. This is why it's important to socialize pit bulls from a very young age and to expose them to strangers, adults, other dogs, and children.

Characteristics
Height: 14–24 inches
Weight: 22–78 pounds
Life Expectancy: 12 years
Attack and Bite Statistics From 1982 to 2013:
Bodily Harm: 2,792 attacks
Child Victims: 1,114 attacks
Adult Victims: 1,047 attacks
Deaths: 263
Maimings: 1,677

Youmakemewannashout · 07/01/2020 14:03

I guess this is from the USA where such dogs are allowed but- it makes chilling reading

Logansnana · 07/01/2020 14:11

I'm so with you we had a staffy for 15 years and he slept and played with our grandson right up to the end he guarded him with his life

WiddlinDiddlin · 07/01/2020 14:18

Pitbulls are not banned because they are actually dangerous.

Pitbulls were banned because the government at the time needed to be seen to be 'Doing Something' after a spate of dog attacks, some of which involved pits, and many of which involved gsd's, rotties and dobermans.

Pitbulls were the only breed that are not recognised in the UK by the Kennel Club or the FCI (Federation Cynologique Internationale), and so it was VERY easy to ban them, as opposed to attempting to ban recognised pedigree breeds.

You will note, if you care to research, that the other breeds banned at the time, were also not recognised here, and not in fact present here either!

So the government banned 4 breeds, 3 of which have hardly ever been seen in the UK and all of which not recognised by our Kennel Club, so no strong backlash from anyone with any real weight or money.

They banned not just the breed, but the type - as mentioned before, type is based on appearance NOT genetics, NOT DNA, so two perfectly legal breeds can be crossed to produce an illegal breed and you won't know that puppy is illegal, until its 9 months old or older, and done growing, and a DLO measures the dog and determines it is a 'type' dog.

So the BSL gives us legislation that makes people criminals, because they bought a crossbred puppy, and it grew into an illegal dog, it wasn't illegal when they bought it, it wasn't illegal to breed the parent dogs together, they have done nothing wrong, the passage of time and luck and someones opinion, have turned them into criminals.

Can you see why that's ridiculous?

Are pitbulls or any bull breed inherently more dangerous than any other large strong breed?

Not especially, no. There are bigger dogs out there that are legal, a rottie is bigger than a pitbull.

There are heavier dogs out there that are legal.

There are dogs that can bite harder, that are legal.

There are dogs with a higher degree of desire to kill things - most small terriers for example.

In other countries, these dogs are used as assistance dogs, search and rescue dogs, scent detection dogs.

Remarkably, the landmark case against Michael Vick, who had 49fighting pitbulls removed from his property, all of whom had suffered severe neglect, abuse, violence, many of whom had fought and killed other dogs...

They were all fostered and all rehomed bar ONE dog who was euthanised due to aggression AND injuries too severe to be rehabbed.

Despite that horrific treatment, despite being bred to attack and kill other dogs, all those rehomed went on to live safe, happy lives, without injuring anyone.

The point of this is not to say pitbulls are fluffy bunnies, they aren't, they are dogs - but they are not inherently any more dangerous to people, than any other large, heavy, powerful dog.

There are many many factors involved in creating a dangerous dog - genetics, breed type, early nurture, training, handling, housing/environment, health.

Breed is just ONE of those.

And yes fwiw, I have worked with pitbulls (exempted dogs, dogs not yet exempted, dogs in kennels awaiting court cases where they've been used as weapons, dogs that have killed other dogs) and also lots of bullbreeds that are not pitbulls.

Personally, I think the ban on pitbulls was the worst thing that could happen to them - it INSTANTLY made them 'the' dog to have if you want to intimidate people, act like a macho twat.

By labelling them inherently dangerous and scary, the government increased their desirability, to exact the sorts of people, in exactly the types of environments that would frankly make a miniature poodle dangerous.

We now have MORE pitbulls, both illegally and on the exempt dog index, than we EVER had before the ban.

If we don't learn from the error that is BSL, and change our thinking, work out WHY people want scary dogs... things will not improve.

The latest 'must have' dog is teh Caucasian Ovcharka... this is a huge livestock guardian breed suited to desolate mountains and steppes, to protect flocks from thieves and predators. They are not 'dog' aggressive... they are EVERYTHING aggressive, they will kill a man or a wolf or a dog, and are bred to do so.

Another rising in popularity is the Bully Kutta - a tall bullbreed mix originating in India, bred for fighting but again also bred for aggression towards humans.

These are still fairly rare and as a result, very expensive but dog breeding is easy, and cheap to do, and soon we WILL see an explosion in the populations of these breeds, by people who have no business raising animals, who want an animal that will easily kill a person.

The problem is, as it has always been, not dogs.. but humans.

Logansnana · 07/01/2020 14:24

Here here!!!

JKScot4 · 07/01/2020 14:25

US figures have no reflection on the UK whatsoever, in the last 10 years, 7 children have been killed by breeds of dogs not banned: husky , jrt, rottie etc. This is why Breed Specific Legislation is not fit for purpose, we cannot ban a breed based on appearance only, irresponsible dog owners lead to bites/attacks, no dog is born aggressive, these traits that dogs were originally bred for have died away as there is no such thing as a pure bred pitbull, they are a hugely mixed if not mongrel breed now.
If you want to use that excuse then huskies should be working as should nearly every breed.
Interesting reading;
www.doglistener.tv/2016/08/breed-most-likely-to-bite/

caringcarer · 07/01/2020 14:44

I would report. If is investigated and dog turns out not to be Pit Bull then nothing will happen. They won't know it was you who reported it because they keep who reported it anonymous. Better to report and get it wrong than not report and a small child is the next victim of this dog. If it was never let out without a muzzle and on a strong lead then maybe I would wait and see for a bot but clearly out without even on a lead. It is dangerous.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 07/01/2020 15:08

Remarkably, the landmark case against Michael Vick, who had 49fighting pitbulls removed from his property, all of whom had suffered severe neglect, abuse, violence, many of whom had fought and killed other dogs...

They were all fostered and all rehomed bar ONE dog who was euthanised due to aggression AND injuries too severe to be rehabbed.

No, they weren't. One or two lived out their days in kennels for various reasons, and at least one that went to a new home was so dog aggressive that he had to be kept separate even from the other dogs in the household for the rest of his life. I'm not blaming the dog here, he'd had a terrible life, but let's not pretend that everything can fixed.

There is more to how much damage a dog can inflict than the PSI of its bite: how likely it is to bite, and how it bites: is it a nip-and-release, or does it bear down, hang on and shake? Does it bite once and then back off, or does it just keep on going?

This list makes sobering reading.

Quietlycrazy1 · 07/01/2020 17:07

My boy wasn’t seized but he was measured, had his chest size checked and his lung capacity. Every inch of him was photographed and I was home checked. He was checked by two behaviouralists and had the tattoo. He also had to be neutered and in their opinion he was 99% a pitbull type. They couldn’t do a dna test because they told me there wasn’t a conclusive one. The big thing for them was the type of home he lived in and the type of people we are. We passed everything they could throw at us but it was a really stressful time. It really bothers me when such beautiful animals fall into the hands of absolute morons. They are beyond clever dogs. We taught our boy to surf and he loved the trampoline, could take the wrapper off anything and had to have his head stuck out of the window of the car rain or shine while the rest of us froze. He was the best judge of character I’ve ever met and was loyal to his last breath. If only humans had the same qualities.

JKScot4 · 07/01/2020 17:18

@Quietlycrazy1
Your boy sounds like he was a wonderful boy who lived a good life 🐶💙

nicky7654 · 07/01/2020 17:21

Pitbulls are lovely dogs and should never have been banned. If you report it then you are giving it a death sentence! Stop listening to all the hype on the media. And for your information all breeds can attack other dogs even the small ones.

Logansnana · 07/01/2020 17:41

Thank you for this post and thank you for giving your boy a loving home. It's not the breed it's the deed Wink

GSD20 · 07/01/2020 20:00

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman that list is shocking!
How can anybody deny what is there in black and white Sad

JKScot4 · 07/01/2020 20:20

@gsd
That list is not relevant to one breed, as I stated previously children have been killed by a variety of breeds including Jack Russells, Huskies, Labs.
If people could engage in basic reading of pp information and not slide into hysteria, the majority of dog bite/attacks are a result of human error, lack of knowledge of animal behaviour; dogs do not decide to attack for no reason, they are failed by their owners.

GSD20 · 07/01/2020 20:34

There are other breeds on the list. A few shepherds, rotties, a malamute and a couple of terriers but about 90% are bull types.

No Labrador Confused

frostedviolets · 07/01/2020 20:44

Whether they are listed on that particular list or not Labradors are consistently near the top for bites!

Their bite strength is almost as high as pit bulls.

And I agree with a PP, they are absolutely not the placid, gentle, easy first time family dogs they are made out to be and I hate seeing them recommended as such.

They are big and bouncy and mouthy/bitey and slow maturing.
Their popularity has meant a huge surge in the number of them with inherited poor temperament.

It's crazy that the pit bull can invoke such hysteria but other similarly sized, or even bigger breeds are not despite being cabable of just as bad, or worse damage.

TheEva1966 · 07/01/2020 21:31

That article that states Labs are the #1 dog most likely to bite is laughable. It never should have been printed. I've read and watched so many shows and REAL vet articles, including from emergency room doctors as well, and they all say pit type dogs are NOT good family dogs if you have children. Children get too close to a dog's face and Bam!! Here comes the attack. Or the child doesn't even have to be paying attention to the dog at all and it can still attack unprovoked. I have to disagree with the poster who claims traits are not in dogs anymore, that's just simply not true. My Retriever is living proof. Plus the aggression is in fact in the Pit type dogs DNA and cannot just be gone over time. Facts are facts and can't be changed. Emotions on the other hand, can't really hold up in a debate.

JKScot4 · 07/01/2020 21:45

@TheEva1966
What a load of crap you talk!!
Pits or any dog does not Bam attack unprovoked, silly ignorant woman.
Pitbull isn’t even a pure breed anymore, it has been so diluted, if we believe every breed has never been diluted and a dog retains its breed traits from 100s of years ago; unchanged, well we better ban lots of breeds.
I’ll assume from your phrasing you’re in the US, if you look at Humane Society Puts are consistently in the high 90%s of passing temperament testing.
You only scoff at the Lab info because you own one!

CJsGoldfish · 07/01/2020 22:01

Whether they are listed on that particular list or not Labradors are consistently near the top for bites!
Not exactly.

This keeps being trotted out but I'm not sure anyone has actually taken the time to research it. If anyone has, and can find some stats from somewhere other than the ONE study by a pet insurer, please pass them on. Posters have already explained why Labs would appear on a list generated by insurers.

tabulahrasa · 07/01/2020 22:01

From that list btw...

Victim's grandmother, after smoking 10 cannabis joints and drinking two bottles of wine, let the 75-pound dog inside the house

The family got the dog from a rehoming centre two months prior, and it had been through several owners since 2007.

The neighbours said the dog was called "Killer"

Victim's father had fallen asleep drunk

Cocaine and morphine were found in the dog’s urine.

Several note that previous bites/attacks had happened, several more have previous incidents reported during court proceedings.

All IMO more relevant than breed.

“Plus the aggression is in fact in the Pit type dogs DNA”

How can it be when pitbull type is any dog that looks like one? that’s not how DNA is passed on.

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