To not get the vegan meat thing.

[Katzia]

I just don't get it. Surely if you're vegan/ vegetarian you don't want things to taste of meat which you have foresworn, so why want a fake meat taste. I just don't get the fake steak, fake bacon etc thing. Be vegan/ vegetarian or just eat meat. It's one or the other.

Why are people calling Quorn junk or rubbish? It’s a great option. Low fat, high protein, perfect for weight loss and muscle gain. It’s a bit flavourless but putting it in a curry sorts that out.

Also I wish people would stop trying to catch vegetarians and vegans out. “Oh ho ho, you’re not ethical at all actually”. I’ve never in my life told a meat eater what I really think of their chosen diet but here we go again with meat eaters telling us how to eat.

I’ve never eaten meat so have no idea if veggie bacon/chicken/mince etc taste of what they say they are. I don’t use them much because I don’t feel the need but they seem a good alternative for some.
I don’t get the meat thing but it doesn’t keep me up at night.

I transitioned to vegan all of 6 weeks avo and already so fucking sick of meat eaters telling me what I should eat and why, and what my ethics and lifestyle should be. Honestly, just fuck off

Get used to it I have been vegetarian and then vegan for over 30 years and people never stop.

Why do people consume decaf coffee? Diet coke? Fat free yoghurt? Alcohol free beer?

Agriculture and forest clearing accounts for about a quarter of carbon emissions, meat and diary is about 60% of that, so meat eating is a pretty big source of climate emissions.

Within the uk, agriculture accounts for around 10%, but that doesn't include what we import as meat or as animal feed ( I think we import around 60% of our food)

Similar level, 15% of uk emissions come from flying, which would imply that around 10% is then everyday travel

So meat and diary reduction probably the biggest single thing that people can do

And on the 'but these products are so processed' and 'what about factory fumes' argument. Do you think milk/burgers etc are magically transformed from what you find on a farm to what you buy in the shop?

Milking tends to be done mechanically, followed by pasteurisation, separation and homogenisation, where at various points the milk will need to be cooled or heated ( =energy intensive). And that's before you're even talking about the processing required to make cheese, butter, yoghurt, etc.

Even so, the processing part only accounts for approximately 10-15% of emissions in the dairy supply chain, with the vast majority of emissions (70+ %) coming from farms. Furthermore, it's relatively easy to reduce emissions from factories (through energy efficiency & renewable energy), but it's much more difficult to decarbonise cows. That's why even if fake meat alternatives would require more processing their climate impact is still (on average) unlikely to be as significant as conventional meat & dairy products.

whiteroseredrose I agree with you on that. I dont like the meat substitutes. Burger King have discontinued their halloumi burger to introduce a vegan substitute burger. Why? Surely the beanburger with vegan cheese would be vegan?My kids are the only ones that will sometimes have quorn ham or cocktail sausages in their packed lunch but they have gone off it because it's all the same texture/ taste but different colours! I suspect the prevalence of fake vegan food is because if everyone who wanted to go vegan made vegan meals from lentils and vegetables it wouldn't make any money, whereas processed 'fake' meat does.

Burger king’s halloumi burger wasn’t even vegetarian. They cooked it with the meat.

Oh really?? Eek! I didnt know that! Oh well too late now

I think it is so that my mum can still cook for vegans. She cannot fathom a meal wirhour meat, so it's cottage pie with quorn mince, or bangers and mash with veggie sausage etc.
Where as I would just use more veggies in a curry, or lentils ina lasagne etc.
My dh has been veggie for 25 years. He loves food and is not fussy at all. He will eat anything except meat, for ethical reasons, and says he likes the veggie meat products as they represent more choice and variety, and an easy way to get protein.

There is a massive part of this discussion that is being missed here though a few people have picked up on it- livestock farming is not necessarily by default unsustainable or cruel. You find just as many plant/crop/veg farmers who are unsustainable and who are killing the environment via bad practice and pollution (particularly as crops and vegetables require high levels of fertiliser to grow them, and artificial non animal fertiliser is the MOST ENERGY INTENSIVE manufacturing process in the world (the haber process). Organic veg or crop farming is no better (infact I would say it’s worse as it releases much more carbon into the system from soil systems due to the reliance on the plough for weed control and uses highly toxic compounds such as copper sulphate for weed control in some cases!)

Our British farmers really are leading the world in sustainability- the new ag bill which is replacing the CAP is to be based on a system of enhancing natural capital, eg rewarding for high welfare livestock production, land management techniques that regenerate farmland and sequester carbon (such as trees and hedgerow planting, peatland restoration, conservation tillage).

It is almost impossible to grow crops and vegetables sustainably without livestock. Basic soil science taught at secondary school taught us this as one of the most effective ways to reduce soil degradation is to introduce grazing by livestock and livestock manure!

What we really need to encourage as consumers is sustainable agricultural practices, and when I say encourage, I mean provide a market outlet for produce produced in this way. By going vegan, you are removing yourself from being able to create that market demand for sustainable, ethical products- the easiest way to do this in Britain is to eat produce (both veg and meat) that carries a farm assurance sticker- red tractor or scotch which gives a guarantee of origin (born, raised and slaughtered in GB), and a guarantee of high standards underpinned by the mountain of legislation that farmers have to follow.

Our food choices can all help do their bit to make life a little more sustainable and ethical, but going vegan does not automatically make that happen, intact almost impossible to do so without livestock featuring within the production cycle.

I am with @WellErrr when it comes to environmental impact. The number of ingredients which have to be made somewhere and then shipped to one factory to make the "meat like" stuff must have consideration impact too. All foods should have total emissions on.
When it comes to how highly processed most of the food is imho equally unhealthy as if someone eats highly processed non vegan products.
I prefer more natural things myself normally but won't say no to a treat of Maccies No one's perfect.

Imo egg (ingredients:egg) is better overall than egg (ingredients:Chickpea Flour, Maize Flour, Vegetable Gums (Stabilisers): Methylcellulose, Carrageenan, Vegetable Protein, Dextrose from Maize, Salt, Turmeric, Raising Agent: Calcium Carbonate, Garlic Powder).

Environmentally it might be better to shop bit less and very locally. Eat bit less meat. For example I am now putting more veg and half a meat amount into my chilli and it's still spectacular! Meat free days can be done very easily too and without substitute. I honestly believe that midway point, with more local seasonal eating and moderate meat consumption, is the best for people and environment. And I am a big fan of meat. Tartare steak is my absolute fave food
Morally? That is up to each person.
Tastewise? Again. Personal choice.
Healthwise? Depends on personal circumstances such as allergies, but highly processed foods meat or non meat are not good if they are big part of the diet.

if you're going to not eat meat then fine, but stop pretending with all this "fake chemical shit"

^Completely agree. Quorn tastes disgusting- nothing like meat at all.

if you're going to not eat meat then fine, but stop pretending with all this "fake chemical shit”

Everything is made of chemicals. As has been pointed out countless times on these threads.

My DD is vegetarian for ethical reasons. She likes the taste of meat but has chosen not to eat it.If she can replicate meals she enjoyed and which also fit in around what everyone else is eating, why not?

@WellErrr @AllergicToAMop have you actually done any research whatsoever or are just assuming that because there are a lot of ingredients in meat replacements they must be bad for the environment.

All research points to meat being way worse for the environment than any meat replacement and no I am not going to provide the research for you. A quick google will show you that.

I’m saying this as someone who isn’t yet vegan but people who try and convince themselves meat isn’t that bad for the environment are completely delusion and do it out of guilt.

YABU. I liked the taste of meat but went vegetarian because I didn't like the idea of eating dead animals.

Meat also doesn't naturally occur in burger or sausage shapes! People make them because they're convenient for eating - and the ones you can buy are rarely 100% meat. Making a patty out of beef is just as 'fake' as making a patty out of Quorn in that sense.

@strawberrieshortcake yes, actually.

The shops are full of things I don't want to buy and don't understand why they're made, but I don't start a thread about them I am looking forward to the follow up series 'why does non-alcoholic wine exist'.

I eat meat but I also eat vegetarian and vegan food. As do the majority of people. I like having a variety of food and a side from that I can think of many reasons 'fake meat' exists. Most have already been said but just a few I think are the main reasons are;

Vegans like the taste of meat but not the process of it going from animal to food.

Convenience.

To attract meat eaters to buy it.

It's easier if they make things eg a sausage shape because it's familiar, easy for everyone to know what to do with it eg serve with mash and hot dog rolls are already that shape

Some people eat 'fake meat' due to allergies or intolerances.

people who try and convince themselves meat isn’t that bad for the environment are completely delusion

Factory farming on an intensive scale on South America (where most of the propaganda is filmed) is bad.

People eating locally sourced meat from outdoor uk systems is not. Far better than your avocados grown under plastic and flown thousands of miles.

@AllergicToAMop

You do know that cows, pigs and chickens don't live on fresh air? Have you looked into the resources that go into raising, transporting, slaughtering and processing livestock?

People eating locally sourced meat from outdoor uk systems is not.

If that was affordable for the average family, of course it would be a good alternative to eating intensively farmed meat.

You really cant fathom that people go vegan for other reasons than not liking the taste of meat?

"locally sourced meat from outdoor uk systems" accounts for a vanishingly small percentage of UK meat consumption.

I’m a vegetarian who doesn’t eat any dairy. In fact, I have never eaten any dairy or any meat/fish.

I’m personally not interested in pretend meat products. I have a colleague who has gone vegan due to environmental issues as animal feed typically uses valuable land and destroys important ecosystems. Yet she eats meat replacements that contain palm oil, so is happy for orangs, elephants and clouded leopards to be killed and have their habitat destroyed 🤷🏽‍♂️