AIBU to think that McDonalds need to up their vegan game

[Hiphopopotamus]

As a vegan the start of veganuary is always really exciting when all the new companies bring out their vegan stuff - this year seems to be particularly great - Greggs have brought the vegan steak bake, kfc have their vegan burger and McDonald’s....well they’ve taken the horrible goujon things they have in their veggie burger, sold them separately and marketed them as a new vegan meal! AIBU to think that they need to seriously up their game?

@cryingoverspilttea - exactly. They sell vegan food as there is a market for it. It's funny how many meat eaters are so bothered that they have to come on this thread and whinge about it!

I can confirm the KFC vegan burger is delicious

In @daisychain01 's defense, vegan cheese is shite. Every now and again I buy it, and then remember why I don't! Ha.

If I was a veggie, I would be mightily disgruntled about having vegan cheese on my dish. (I was vegetarian for years, thankfully before the vegan cheese became mainstream so it wasn't an issue. And now I am vegan, I do not want vegan cheese anywhere near my food!)

@catherineofaragon - the thread was talking about how the Op thought a lot of other fast food places are doing nicer vegan food than McDonald's. That was the AIBU. Stating that vegans shouldn't go to McDonalds or that vegans should have certain ethical stances or that McDonald's 'shouldn't have' to sell vegan food is derailing. And I know I'm gulity of that too by engaging with the derailing but it annoys me!

@flacker - good to hear!

Some vegan cheese is decent. I liked the Applewood smoked, Asda's Free from grated mozzarella alternative and whatever cheese M&S use in their Plant kitchen pizzas and likewise with Tesco's Plant Chef pizza. I haven't tried many others though, just Violife grated which I didn't like,

I can't get on board with most vegan cheeze @RollingOutOfBed - which causes me some sadness because I used to be a total cheese monster when I was a veggie. I have tasted some properly nice nut-based cultured cheese though, and have learned how to make my own at home. Still a beginner but I'm getting there.

If you're a vegan due to your ethics you're not doing a good job I'm afraid.

McDonalds, KFC, Gregg's...all benefit from mass produced meat and slaughter.

That's so funny...

I think that is where you need to broaden your idea of what a vegan is.

I wouldn't have thought it was a concept with much lassitude for differential interpretation. To quote: the definition of veganism (according to the Vegan Society) is avoiding, so far as is possible/practicable, anything that involves cruelty to or exploitation of animals.

So how can this line up with actually advocating, not even passive acceptance, but actively asking for more vegan options in a major meat chain? Surely by definition, the two are incompatible? Why would you give your money to it?

Even the argument of making plant eating more acceptable/accessible doesn't quite hold water. Do you want people to change to a vegan world view or just have more plant based foods in their diet occasionally for health reasons? Do you want MDs, KFC to go out of business or to keep them relevant and growing?

I think people will incorporate more plant based eating in their diets, and it is good to have the choice, but even exclusively eating plant based food doesn't make one vegan.

@frankola - I didn't realise being a vegan was a job?!

@catherine - I agree I don't know why it is open to so much interpretation at its core. It of course goes beyond eating just a plant based diet. But I think you are adding interpretation that isn't there. It doesn't say anything about wanting others to become vegan or selling veganism to others. Personally I think the chance of Mcdonalds going out of business any time soon is slim.

Why do some hold every vegan to some sort of higher standard, that they have to be doing it to be morally superior or something?

Personally I've never met anyone who holds "every vegan" to anything; on the whole, most I know feel that food choices are up to the individual and have little to do with anyone else - not that anyone else would be all that interested anyway

But faced with the type of vegan who who insists on telling everyone else where they're going wrong and how vastly superior their own choices are, then yes - I'd expect some comment to be made if it turns out they're not as committed as they pretend

I also agree with PPs about food retailers, in that they'll sell whatever's popular while the current fad lasts ... and when it's moved onto something else they'll drop the options just as fast because the demand just won't be there

@maggie - the only vegan cheese I have liked has been home made. I didn't even like it that much. But lots seem to love it, even the commercially produced cheese. I do quite like the vegan cheese they put on the pizzas in Pizza Express.

@puzzled - but I've not seen any vegan on this thread claim to be superior etc - so why the need for meat eaters to wade in? It gets tiresome.

"So how can this line up with actually advocating, not even passive acceptance, but actively asking for more vegan options in a major meat chain? Surely by definition, the two are incompatible? Why would you give your money to it?"

I answered that point in the very post you copied the Vegan Society quote from, @CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook. Additionally, there are several potential reasons cited by other people on this thread, summarised below:

1. Vegans often find themselves at such chain restaurants (because we have family and friends who aren't vegan) so it's helpful to be able to choose something from the menu at those times

2. If we see more non-meat options in mainstream chains, more people might consider choosing them over a meat option, thus reducing animal suffering in the short term

3. In the long term, there's an argument that the increasing availability of vegan options it makes plant based and vegan lifestyles seem like a less niche, more achievable choice.

Now. You say that point 3) doesn't hold water but that is debatable. In the last couple of days I have seen vegans being shouted down by both omnis and other vegans for arguing that we shouldn't be giving money to KFC/McD's etc - because it's a hardline stance that antagonises people, makes vegans seem 'preachy' etc. I've honestly seen people arguing that vegans actually do their cause more harm than good with these arguments: no-one likes a preachy vegan! And then here you are, saying that vegans are hypocritical when they take a more pragmatic real-world approach. We really can't win.

OP here - can’t believe this thread is still going like this 😂 Not what I expected and everything’s veered totally away from where it started. Feeling quite proud of my longest ever thread though (and I’ve even had a CF parking one before but apparently vegan is the magic word to make a thread run and run!)

Not planning to wade back in to the debate - you guys keep going and have fun. Just reiterating our lovely common ground that the McDonald’s goujons sucks and all vegans, veggies, omni’s and carni’s can agree on that!

@Flacker Great news! I can also confirm that the Gregg's steak bake is delicious

I've not seen any vegan on this thread claim to be superior etc

Neither have I - though there have been plenty elsewhere - but then MN isn't the entire world and I guess we're all just sharing our experiences no matter where they've been gathered from?

Feeling quite proud of my longest ever thread though (and I’ve even had a CF parking one before but apparently vegan is the magic word to make a thread run and run!

Next try
Brexit
Instagram influencers
or trans

to bring out more obsessives/extremists and see it run to 40 pages lol

KFC Vegan Burger, eaten by me 10 minutes ago. It's was surprisingly good. Their fries aren't vegan FYI. 😁🍟

In the last couple of days I have seen vegans being shouted down by both omnis and other vegans for arguing that we shouldn't be giving money to KFC/McD's etc - because it's a hardline stance that antagonises people, makes vegans seem 'preachy' etc. I've honestly seen people arguing that vegans actually do their cause more harm than good with these arguments: no-one likes a preachy vegan! And then here you are, saying that vegans are hypocritical when they take a more pragmatic real-world approach. We really can't win.

^^This, 100%.

Why do you think you have nothing to prove, that totally seems like your issue, not vegans

My hashtag #veggieswithnothingtoprove from my previous post was purely that - I have nothing to prove - ie no need to pontificate to others about the right or wrong choices. My only wish is that veggies are recognised as a large group of people in their own right, so shouldn't have their choice to eat dairy products stunted because veganism has suddenly become the latest "new trend"

@hiphop - yep, vegan will do it every time!

I missed the part where “being vegan” is a protected characteristic requiring McDonalds to offer anything for them?

In the absence of this, surely the market will dictate what’s on offer?

It’s not as if there’s nowhere else to eat if you don’t like what’s on offer.

My hashtag #veggieswithnothingtoprove from my previous post was purely that - I have nothing to prove - ie no need to pontificate to others about the right or wrong choices

Maybe some vegans do "pontificate to others", a lot don't and don't give a shit about what you do or don't eat though.
So what's that got to do with whether place cater to vegans or not though?
It's really not taking away from you by adding more choice for others.