AIBU to think that McDonalds need to up their vegan game

[Hiphopopotamus]

As a vegan the start of veganuary is always really exciting when all the new companies bring out their vegan stuff - this year seems to be particularly great - Greggs have brought the vegan steak bake, kfc have their vegan burger and McDonald’s....well they’ve taken the horrible goujon things they have in their veggie burger, sold them separately and marketed them as a new vegan meal! AIBU to think that they need to seriously up their game?

I wouldnt expect a beef burger at KFC and wouldnt be shocked if they tried and it was crap

KFC have an excellent vegan “chicken” burger.

@daisychain01
#veggieswithnothingtoprove

See, this I find interesting.
Not that long ago meat eaters would have moaned at vegetarians (and a lot still do)
Why as a veggie are you dismissive of people wanting to consume less animal products? As a veggie surely you'd be all for that?
Or do you feel like they're somehow "getting at you" because they're staying away from animal produce more than you are?
Genuinely interested to know, as I'd have thought someone who was vegetarian wouldn't be sneery at a vegan's choice, that they'd be more sympathetic as they get it too from the meat eaters?

Bloody hell @nowaypose did you even read the OP or did you just want to stick the boot in. We KNOW McDs serves a vegan meal. The whole point of this thread is it’s bloody gross. 🤦‍♀️

@daisychain01 come and join our little crusade #saveourcheese #stopveganisingourveggiefood 😉

I too am a bit befuzzled by all the bile from the vegetarians on this thread. Bit of a shame really. No-one's trying to steal your cheese, don't fret!

@catherineofaragon - but why should someone be interested in selling it to you? You eat what you want, I eat what I want. I don't have to sell it to anybody. That isn't part of being a vegan that you have to use your spare time 'selling it' to people??

No-one's trying to steal your cheese, don't fret!

Exactly, you can keep your cheese, there's still plenty of it about on restaurant dishes in my experience!
They haven't run away with all the cheese lol

@wotchatalkin - exactly! Vegans get vilified if they do try to 'sell' veganism and villified if they don't!! Nothing like a vegan thread to bring out such nonsense!

Why do vegans need to sell their diet to anyone? It’s a personal choice. Everyone else can eat what they like.

Because as has been said, the point is it often is and sold as the panacea of environmental and physical wellbeing.

Why can't some people want to be vegan for health reasons, though?
Why do some hold every vegan to some sort of higher standard, that they have to be doing it to be morally superior or something?

Because being vegan used to synonymous with an ethical stance. It seems a bit contradictory to say I won't wear leather etc out of concern for animal welfare, but then complain that you can't shop at a major commercial meat food chain. How does that square up, unless the 'healthly' bit is the bit that matters most, in which case why not classify yourself as a plant food eater/dieter, the same way a Paleo Eater or a Raw Foodie does?

@squeekums - of course they 'could' not sell chicken and they 'could' not sell vegan burgers but obviously they do because there is a market for it.

@nowaypose - I don't think anyone is expecting healthy food from McDonalds. Just discussing how the vegan fare from other fast food places is nicer.

If you're happy to wear leather, isn't that a bit 'half foot in, half foot out", morally speaking?

I was waiting for this. In the first case I don't know of cows being killed just for their leather.

In the second place I'm not advocating that that shops that sell fur also sell affordable non-fur products.

And thirdly I'm not anti use of all animal products. But Vegan is a title that pretty much assumes that stance in the complete sense.

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis, I’m not speaking for daisy but in my case it’s about choice. For years if you went to a restaurant, there was one vegetarian main course on a menu, against several different meat items (steak, chicken, lasagna, sausages, pie, chili for instance) and at least two fish (say salmon fillet and cod and chips). The vegetarian main was invariably mushroom risotto, tomato pasta or veggie lasagna and equally invariably was tasteless and boring. Then, a few years ago restaurants suddenly started to realise that vegetarians actually wanted a choice of dishes when they went out to eat, the same as omnis demand, so menus improved massively, even in freezer-to-microwave chain restaurants. When veganism started to become slightly more popular, again restaurants started adding dishes to the menu. Suddenly, the vegetarian options increased again. Now, places have realised that they can cut costs by only providing vegan food and by reverting to only offering one “choice”. We’ve come full circle back to pasta with insipid tomato sauce, which is cheap to churn out and can be stuck on the vegan, veggie and kids’ menus.

It seems a bit contradictory to say I won't wear leather etc out of concern for animal welfare, but then complain that you can't shop at a major commercial meat food chain

People who don't wear leather shoes though usually still have to go shopping for shoes in shoe shops that mainly sell leather ones.
Going by your logic they shouldn't expect say trainers or in there as they mainly support the leather industry.
Choice - it's a good thing, no?
It'd be impossible to stay away from it all completely, people can only do as much as they feel is possible for them.

I myself wouldn't eat at a McDonald's or KFC or Burger King. But believe it or not, this issue has been thrashed out at great and agonising length on a lot of vegan activism forums. My own view tends towards the cynical - I think the big chains are cashing in and that by spending money there we are only lining their pockets. But I've heard some persuasive arguments from people who take a broader view - that these products are a good thing because they normalise vegan options, maybe make more people think about cutting out animal products.

I don't have all the answers, a lot of people on this thread seem to think they do! But I don't think judging or goading other people is the way to go really. We all make our own choices for our own reasons. When I think about why I converted to veganism, it wasn't because I was convinced by someone's argument or because I tried a Beyond Burger. It was some intrinsic shift in perspective which made it feel like the right thing for me to do.

@squeekums - it's like you think McDonalds is doing vegans a favour by selling a vegan burger! It is only to make money. As more fast food places sell vegan items now those with the tastier options will get more customers. It's money not obligation!

Beef burgers are what McDonalds are famous for, you know meat.
Why on earth would a vegan want to go there.
When my dc worked there a couple of years ago, all prep was together, no doing anything special for veggies or vegans, why should they.
They make enough from the carnivores.

Pressed post too soon. This then reduces everyone’s choices; vegans, veggies and omnis alike. Omnis just wouldn’t put up with a restaurant that only offered them two meals on a menu, why should vegetarians and vegans? Our money is as good as anyone else’s, and we should be able to eat in the same place as our omni families without having to take a bloody picnic.

"And thirdly I'm not anti use of all animal products"

Sure, but you 'don't agree with' fur. So you clearly do draw a line in the sand somewhere. I wouldn't draw mine in the same place but I'm not judging you for that, so there's no need to be defensive. I'm just saying that we can all sit about pointing out each other's moral inconsistencies all day long... does it really get us anywhere?

Beef burgers are what McDonalds are famous for, you know meat.
Why on earth would a vegan want to go there

Because if you're out with friends/family, it's the only place around to eat or it's where everyone else wants to go, it's nice to be able to join in and be able to have something to eat too?
Or are they expected to just sit there with their bottle of mineral water?

@catherineofaragon - then take that up with those particular people. Being a vegan means eating no meat/dairy all the other things have come from meat eaters (on this thread) telling vegans that that is what they believe in and this is what their stance should be. Plenty of vegans have explained they don't have that point of view atall. Just because some vegans spoke to you about healthy food or enviromental issues doesn't mean every vegan will think the same. Lots of meat eaters are interested in healthy eating - it doesn't mean that I think every meat eater should be trying to 'sell' to me how healthy their meat is!

People who don't wear leather shoes though usually still have to go shopping for shoes in shoe shops that mainly sell leather ones.

I have to say, again not quite the same. You have practically zero choice in that regard, as even online shops tend to sell leather as well as synthetic material shoes.

Again, when it comes to food though, you don't have to go to go to MD's or Gregs etc. I have a thyroid disorder and am constantly told to go gluten free. That's when I learned that I don't need although I want to - go to fast food chains. You can prepare your own food. It takes more effort and it is hard, but it's possible. Most shops have fruit or veg or olives, salads available.

What's surprising me is the advocating for the right to shop in meat food chains by committed 'vegans'

@drabarni - well, exactly why should they do anything? The answer is they don't sell items because they 'should' but because there is demand for them and they make money from it. McDonald's is not a moral entity striving to do the right thing. They exist to make money. There is demand for a vegan burger, so they sell it.

McDonald's is not a moral entity striving to do the right thing. They exist to make money. There is demand for a vegan burger, so they sell it

Exactly

@catherineofaragons - I agree there is no 'need' to go to fast food joints and noone has a 'right' to go there. But the whole premis of this thread was about other fast food joints having better offerings than McDonald's. Then a whole load of meat eaters jumped on the thread to tell vegans McDonalds doesn't 'have' to sell vegan burgers, which is niether here nor there. Another load went on to tell vegans they shouldn't be going to McDonalds and telling them all sorts of ethical values that they should be held up to and that they should also be 'selling' veganism to meat eaters! It completely misses the point of the thread. And to be honest it grates because meat eaters do this all the time. Vegans (and those who like vegan food) just want to be able to talk about things sometimes without the thread always being derailed.

But have any of you guys had the KFC veggie one yet? Considering going out to get one...