Were they rude? Or am I over-thinking it?

[zingally]

This concerns my older sister and her fiancée. She is late 30s, he is mid-40s, and both are on the autistic spectrum but not officially diagnosed, but both live independently, hold down good jobs etc. Sister openly admits she's on the spectrum and understands she sees the world differently. Her fiancée doesn't/can't/won't acknowledge it, and his poor behaviours/social mis-steps are always someone else's fault.

For Christmas, I asked my mum to make me up a hamper of foody bits as my present. She did as requested. Went to a lot of trouble to decorate a box nicely and filled it up with a mixture of food items, household bits, and a couple of jokey items that she wrapped up. I really enjoyed looking through the hamper, unwrapping the bits and bobs and it was just nice all-round. It was just mum and I for Christmas day, so sister and fiancée didn't see my reaction to the hamper.

A few days later, sister and fiancée turn up, and mum has done a hamper for them as well. They hadn't asked for it, but neither of them told mum what they wanted, so she just did the same as she did me.

They both sat down on the floor to open it, mum hovering over them expectantly, expecting a bit of a pleased fuss, like I'd made.

Sister was virtually silent, fiancée just went, "Oh, sponges, I've got loads of them." They spent maybe a minute poking through it, didn't say thank you, and then just went back to their seats on the sofa. Mum looked a bit disappointed, but didn't say anything.

My question is, would I be wrong to say anything to my sister like, "did you thank mum for the hamper?" I just know that mum put a lot of work into it, and their response was underwhelmed, bordering cold.

I KNOW they're both autistic, and social norms pass them by a lot of the time, but they're reasonably functioning, established adults, and SHOULD know how to behave appropriately to a gift that someone has obviously put time and effort into. But is it my place to raise it with them? I know the answer is probably "not your problem", but I'm very protective of mum (more so since my dad died in 2017) and hate seeing her disappointed by my sister.

There is more to unpick, like I feel that my sister hasn't pulled her weight in supporting mum since dad died, or while he was ill in the year before he passed. And I totally see that is a contributory factor as to why I'm cross about something like a Christmas hamper. It's a little bit the final straw in a long like of annoyances!

It is incredibly hard for people with autism to manage day to day interactions. Just because, to a neurotypical person it’s a simple, straightforward norm to say thank you, conforming to ‘normal’ conventions is exhausting to those of us on the spectrum. It’s likely they may have been blindsided by the present, unsure of what to say - a lot of people with ASD find any surprise very difficult to manage - perhaps overwhelmed by opening in front of others. If the fiancé is undiagnosed, he’s unlikely to understand how his behaviours differ from the norm.
It is a heck of a lot harder for someone with ASD to manage in a neurotypical world than it is to cope without a thank you. This time of year is particularly hard as routines are broken, increased levels of socialising, etc. Usually a ‘rude’ response isn’t about that specific thing at all, but everything they’re managing under the surface. You need to cut them some slack, OP.

My sons are on the spectrum but iv drilled into them - get present - say thank you. With this went the questions from ds who is 8
ds: what if I dont like it
Me: you smile and still say thank you
Ds: but that's lying
Me: no its not, you dont have to say if you like it or not - just say thank u
Ds: it stupid, is this one of those things that you talk about that I can hurt peoples feelings?
Me: yes
Ds: eye roll (walks away muttering under his breath)

Autistic people often find new things/presents difficult to accept as they have a fear of the unknown.
Autistic people do not conform to social norms or understand them.
Autistic people can't always express themselves well or articulate their feelings.
Autistic people often don't understand what other people expect from them.
Telling an autistic person how to behave should be done in a kind way as many have problems with demands and actively avoid confrontation.
Autistic people are often unlikely to understand how to support somebody emotionally in a time of grief.
Autistic people who appear high functioning are usually the most misunderstood.

I am a mum of 2 girls with autism, one diagnosed and one going through assessments. One is 'severe' and the little one is likely HFA.

The little one worries me the most and is the most complex.

Yes you can tell her, of course. My son was diagnosed at 3 and still had to be taught manners. When you lack certain degrees of empathy you can still play out a practiced thank you.

Of course you can also have a diagnosis and be a rude arsehole as well. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Even if they are autistic, if they are holding down jobs then they know common courtesy. I would absolutely say something. They were downright rude

Even if they are autistic, if they are holding down jobs then they know common courtesy. I would absolutely say something. They were downright rude

This.

Talk to your mum, support her. Your place is to support your mum not police your sis.

When you lack certain degrees of empathy you can still play out a practiced thank you.

Maybe OP's sister is comfortable around her own mother and doesn't feel the pressure to play out a practiced thank you. Also, the mother should have thought of a present that would have been more tailored to her (autistic) daughter rather than giving her the same things as her NT other daughter.

The main thing is that OP's mum will know and love her (possibly autistic) daughter so will hardly be surprised and deeply hurt by a a lack of responsiveness to a present that could be experienced as quite challenging for someone on the spectrum due to it's randomness and due it's surprise factor.

Something doesn't ring quite right with the OP's version of events.

My autistic son literally threw every gift across the living room once he’d opened it in 2018.

He’d then get used to the idea of whatever the present was & then go back to it really happily about 10/15 minutes later.

This was how he coped with the massive overwhelming experience of Christmas.

How are they with gifts normally? Is this a standard reaction for them?

My son is quite literal so probably would have said the same about the sponges.

"Something doesn't ring quite right with the OP's version of events."

OP here. I'm sorry. What doesn't "ring right"? I can only report from my perspective, and neither my sister, her fiancée, or our mum are here to give their versions. So you'll have to go with what I've said.

Every family has it's work horse and they work it to death.

Your sister has her own issues, possibly picking up a few more due to her partner and your mum is grieving. You are currently the glue and it's not always a choice.

Please ensure you take care of yourself. Your mum's present came from a place of love and I'm sure she appreciates all of your help.

Let the little stuff go

Yes and no.

Not saying thank you was rude, because people with autism can and do learn to say/do certain things for convention's sake. A script if you like, a PP described it. You say morning,you say bye,you say thank you when someone gives you something etc.

What wasn't rude was their reaction/lack of enthusiasm/smiling/facial expressions, as those are so much harder if not impossible for some to fake ,or lie, or that it can be hurtful.

Often those on the spectrum are very truthful and honest. I believe I am on the spectrum too (both my children are diagnosed) and I struggle to show enthusiasm and expressing how much I appreciate a present. I struggle to do so if it’s not something I am interested in. I hate myself for it but it’s just me!

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus

And yet you’re allowed your opinion?

For the record, I know plenty, including myself

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus
You’re one of those people where it’s like arguing with a brick wall so I won’t bother.

My sibling is autistic and they would NEVER not thank someone for a gift. There’s a big difference between missing social cues, social awkwardness and pure RUDENESS.
If my sibling did ever do this, I would have a word. I feel sorry for your mum

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus
No idea why you’re still deciding to single me out when multiple other posters have said the same thing but fair enough.

OP you say that your sister openly admits to being on the spectrum.
It isnt a fault or a crime you know.
Why would she openly "admit" to something that is merely different about her.

It does annoy me when undiagnosed people use it as an excuse for shoddy behaviour.
And I say that as the mother of an actual autistic kid!

OP here. I'm sorry. What doesn't "ring right"?
If you and you sister are adults you will already know very well what your sister is like and I find it surprising that you'd have to post on a forum about her not saying thank you for a gift that was possibly very puzzling to her, and which her mind couldn't quite process in detail as a hamper contains so many varied items that perhaps she was just perplexed by the situation.

I find it really unkind of you to post about such a minor 'offence' in the hope of people agreeing that you sister is rude. I'd feel so bad if this was my sister and she was autistic and therefore somewhat vulnerable. Whilst I understand that relatives on the spectrum can be really frustrating, knowing that their minds functions in different ways helps be more forgiving. You say you are an empath but don't show much empathy toward your poor sister.

I suspect that if your sister had been given one item, e.g. a packet of biscuits it may have been easier to say thank you. I know people with high functioning autism. If I imagine a scenario where they open an unexpected hamper with several items in, I can totally see that they'd end up looking perplexed and end up being tongue tied.

SO what doesn't add up to me OP is that you have known you sister all her life as has your mother and how you can both take issue with her not saying thanks nicely. I find that really odd and unkind.

I know it's a gift you asked for OP, and something you were genuinely excited to get.
But no, I wouldn't be excited to receive a hamper of household items I pick up from tesco when doing my shopping. I'd actually be pretty gutted, I'd say thank you (because that's what I'm supposed to do, which I know people on the autistic spectrum might not understand, so leave it).
People saying OP Mum went to lots of trouble, maybe, but more for OP than anyone else, then just got the same for her sister at the same time because she didn't know her well enough to choose something she'd appreciate 🤷🏻‍♀️
Some people are crap at present buying, so you outlined completely what you wanted and your Mum just bought 2 of everything. I don't know if its favouritism, or shes not good at present buying, but I wouldn't be able to gather much enthusiasm for sponges and hot chocolate.
I sound ungrateful, but that's just how I feel.