To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

This thread is a disaster zone for borh sides , teachers and teacher bashers.

So much of what has been said by both side is wrong their is no point trying to unpick it all.

They get paid £25000 for 195 days of work but they get this in 12 installments

0/10

Bottom of the class.

Must try harder.

Needs to work on comprehension skills.

BarbaraofSeville

It means that we get paid for 195 days a year of which 1265 hours of time are directed.

There is no pro-rata about it.

If -as is often thrown about on this forum- teachers were to have to work the same standard weeks as everybody else, 13 weeks extra money would have to be found to cover the discrepency in the wages.

Hi @Siring1! I know teachers on £40k+ a year. If you're telling me they're getting paid £40k for only 195 and expecting me to feel sorry for them you are having a laugh.

Whether the holidays are technically paid or not (and you're wrong, by the way, they are paid, as mat leave arrangements show - i.e. if you go back to work for even just a couple of days in the summer term at the end of your mat leave it'll trigger payment over the summer holidays) that's still permitted time off that almost no other profession gets along with a decent salary.

Yes, teachers work hard. But so do nurses, fireman etc and the amount of whinging from teachers on here is honestly laughable by comparison.

I have taught a lot in several schools. I have also worked as a salaried writer and in another commercial sales role.
In case it helps anyone understand better, teaching is a role with CORE hours of 6.5 hours a day. The other 6 hours of work per day necessary to do the job well can be done at any time convenient to the teacher - early morning/straight after school/evening when kids in bed/weekend/whatever. So, on a lot of days you can bugger off at 3.30 but that doesn’t make the work go away. It simple shoves it to another time, and TBH it’s often really useful to get home early for whatever reason even if it just delays the inevitable!
I think this is probably comparable to flexi time workers (civil service)? Core hours where you have to be present for certain hours but manage your own workload beyond these confines?

I'm on just over £41000.

Where have I said I want you to feel sorry for me?

I have corrected factual errors on both sides.

I voted YANBU.

I think I am well paid.

Thanks for the explanation. Firefighters and nurses are a good comparison - paid a similar amount for 46 weeks a year instead of 39, nursing also a graduate profession, but more physically and emotionally demanding - say what you like about teaching but you aren't working shifts or cutting people out of burning buidlings or road accidents or watching them die in hospital afterwards.

ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen

No one is asking you to feel sorry for teachers.

And you are still wrong about holidays. Maternity pay and its requirements are part of the contract.

Yes, teachers work hard. But so do nurses, fireman etc and the amount of whinging from teachers on here is honestly laughable by comparison.

Oh you are one of those...

Boney- That’s not necessarily true. When INSET days were introduced teachers had to work an extra week without an extra week’s pay. If they changed our working days to add in extra weeks I’d fall over in surprise if there was any additional pay attached.

@Newyearnewnameforme - it doesn’t matter whether you are happy with your salary (though it is good that you are).

But the shortage of teachers in certain subjects, suggests that either they aren’t being paid ENOUGH or the working conditions are too poor compared to what is on offer for people in that subject. It’s NOT a contradiction that some subjects have a higher supply than others.

What may be controversial may be pay being different for different subjects to incentivise in subject areas where there is a lack. Why do you think there is a shortage in some subjects? Is it a problem for kids? How would you make it better?

BarbaraofSeville

Why would you want to compare apples to oranges?

BarbaraofSeville I career changed from teaching to a specific type of nursing. The key difference is that nurses don't take work home. I taught English and spent endless hours marking. Now I work sometimes very long shifts but I leave my work at work.

Barbaraof..

I agree with all of the points in your last post.

Teaching has some unique stresses but it is not uniquely stressful.

SabineSchmetterling

That is true, but I would hope that all teachers would stand up and say something. And it is one of the few things that we are allowed to strike about.

Although with the onset of academies I doubt it as the working rights of teachers are being continually undermined (as are those of other professions for those that like to pick).

How can we have got to nearly 500 posts and no one yet posted that they drive by their local school at 4:30 and the car park is empty as proof that teachers stop working before then? (duh, we take the work home).

phlebasconsidered

You are quite correct. I am off to have some fun.

:)

I'm not a teacher. I wouldn't be able to do it. I'm frankly in awe of anyone who can coral 30 children or teens, plan lessons that will interest a generation that have become screen-addicted, persuade them to work in lessons and on homework, never mind everything that goes on behind the scenes. (I once worked in school admin so I have some idea about what's involved, but it was a long time ago and I'm sure things are even more demanding now.) It's one of the most responsible jobs in our society, looking after the educational development and overall well-being of the next generation. I think they should get paid a lot more, ditto classroom assistants whose pay seems scandalously low to me. My pay is a bit less than that of the OP, but I don't kid myself that my job is anywhere near as hard, or as valuable to society.

It's funny all the people moaning about teachers getting 40k plus a year that's a shitty salary for someone working long hours with a good degree and masters. Obviously if you're poorly qualified you'll be able to command an even more rubbish salary. If you want to attract great teachers you can't give them a mediocre salary. Of course teachers who have been in their careers 15+ years are going to earn more than people doing an easy low stress admin job.

I make more than double that doing a job that doesn’t require a degree. I have a degree but in a subject which doesn’t really lead to any particular job.

Teaching does have unique stresses.

Since there's a recruitment crises in teaching its 100% obvious that the pay isn't sufficient for what the job entails. There's literally no argument against that.

Namenic- in my opinion it’s the working conditions not the pay that is the problem. The pay is fair for a professional job over 195 days. The expectations put on teachers in many schools are insane though. Endless documentation, excessive paperwork, excessive scrutiny, high timetable loads with unrealistic expectations for planning and marking. Teachers are overworked and increasing pay without dealing with the issue of workload will not solve our recruitment problem. The financial incentives used to try and tempt in graduates in shortage subjects have shown that very clearly. The generous bursaries may have tempted people to train but lots are either not finishing the training, going off to do something else at the end of the training year or leaving as soon as they’ve finished NQT. Conditions are the issue, not pay.

You are not so much being unreasonable as inaccurate and misleading. Most teachers are on significantly lower salaries than you. Well done you for earning more.

The issue for teachers is the sheer volume of work and bureaucracy and depending on the type of school you are in ie parents capable and involved with the education ... or various stages of not and the behaviour of children against the backdrop to achieve is an extremely hard and difficult job, that most would find very difficult.