To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

I disagree that the op is goady, which is unusual for me.

I think teaching could pay more though, to better reflect not just the post-grad training required but also the inherently high level of responsibility and accountability.

Are you primary or secondary op? And what % of your timetable is classroom-based now you are SLT?

I started teaching at 36. I teach drama, so that should answer your question about why I don't go to another school to get some progression (arts cuts in schools. Drama first subject to go)
There's me and an NQT in my department but they did away with Head of Department roles two years ago, so unless I want to go for head of house, there's barely any progression.
We are in a multi academy trust and our last three SLT roles went to existing SLT staff in other academies (seconded to ours)
Last year my teaching hours were cut because even though enough students were opting for drama for gcse, it didn't fit with the timetable so they took gcse drama off the options block just for two years, so I have no year 9 or 10 classes.
In order to keep my hours up, I took on a partial support staff role. So now my salary is £25k pro rata.

Academies can do whatever they like, frankly, and I need the job.

I'm currently doing a masters degree to try and make myself more marketable in the future, but your flippancy, OP, in dismissing those of us who are 'just' classroom teachers is quite hard to take.
In my combined teaching and pastoral role I am working more hours than ever, and taking home £4k less.
In my personal experience, teaching is not a well paid job.

Without knowing what kind and size of school you teach in, where, with what responsibilities you have, this is pretty hard to place in context. I work in an inner London borough in education (not teaching) and this would be more than most classroom teachers would be paid who were not heads of years or heads of departments.

Compared to other countries teachers are paid incredibly well. Senior teachers in public schools often get paid less (even in places like Hong Kong and the US) with longer hours. The holidays are a definite benefit.

Newyearnewnameforme
It’s still classroom teacher though,

It is but if it was "just" a "normal" classroom teacher it wouldn't need extra responsibilities that have been laid out in additional standards.

but you do seem to have a different definition of what "just" a "normal teacher" is.

And UPS was a absolute pig to get through, and there are schools that actively seek to prevent teachers from getting through the threshold.

I wouldn’t accept it and I would apply for other posts where they WOULD pay me UPS3.

Science, Maths or MFL and you can do this. Arts and PE you'd be laughed out of the place. Not everywhere has a plethora or jobs available.

OK, I think what you're asking is: is £30k-£40k a good salary? Obviously that depends on variables such as housing, how many children, whether you're single etc., but of course you have to say that it's above national average and many many people make do with much less.

Whether £30k-£40k accurately describes a teacher's salary, though, is a whole other question. That's where this thread comes undone. You're assuming an awful lot about what teachers are paid across the board.

(The PP who posted about her NQ lawyer DD really highlighted my previous post about lawyers. £57k is more than I'm paid and I'm more qualified. Huge variety in the sector and why I'd never post saying lawyers were all well-paid.)

and in comparison to countries they are also badly paid.

The US is never a great comparison.

True teacher but then it’s supply and demand, isn’t it? We can’t on the one hand say ‘there is a teacher shortage, we should be paid more’ and then on the other ‘but I have to stay at this school because there aren’t any other jobs.’ If there are not any other jobs, then there is no incentive to raise pay.

Not really screamed, you don’t get paid more or less according to how many children you have after all

In 2017, 3 out of every 4 teachers were female. That means really 3 out of 4 schools should have a female HT.

Now THIS I agree with, OP. I've not looked into it closely, but in my own anecdata, work for the trade union and knowing a few basis statistics about the composition of the teaching workforce, I'd say this is due largely to:

1. teacher workload being quite incompatible with raising children, and children are still largely raised by women. I know countless women who wanted to come back from mat leave PT, or dropping responsibilities. And I know many who requested PT and were told by HT that they couldn't work PT in management positions, so had to drop tlrs.

2. primaries have a higher % female workforce than secondaries, and primaries have a much lower paid promotion ladder.
   So women teachers are more likely to be in primary, will less access to promotion.

There is definitely an equality problem in teaching. In my own case I left for many reasons, but the main one was that I was a mother feeling like I couldn't manage the workload/inflexibility anymore.

Hi Tilda
I teach year 5, no extra paid responsibilities. 21st year teaching UPS 3 London fringe

This is a personal question kolo but what does your partner / husband do?

Newyearnewnameforme - how many different schools have you actually worked in and what is your subject? Tbh, you do come across as a teensy bit thick or goady to be generalising about all teachers on the back of your individual experience.

Eh? I meant how many children you need to support on your salary, of course you don't get paid differently depending on how many you have.

So you accept that you are in a privelidged position due to your subject? Not all teachers have the same opportunities you do.

There is a huge teacher shortage in some subjects.

Pay isn't the reason people leave.

Below is a link to the teachers' pay spine

neu.org.uk/pay-scales-2019-20

To tearn what the OP stated, outside the capital, she'd need to be at the top of the spine - U3, with additional responsibilities or skills

In Inner London, she would be at the top of the mainstream pay scale, in outer London, the bottom or the middle of the upper pay scale (which you get if you take on additional responsibilities, as above)

There is a teacher shortage, and supply and demand for labour is more complicated than the simple economics you espouse.

The problem really is that there isn't enough pay to attract people to the profession but once you are in it and commited ( having done more than 4 years) it is very hard to leave because your life has become based around teaching.

I agree with a lot of what OP has said, actually. If you want to progress in any career and work hard and look for opportunities I think you can do well in teaching and earn a good salary.

I'm 29, I'm not on the same as the OP but not far off, and on the leadership scale but not a HOD or SLT, based up north, and earn £45,000.
I have lots of teacher friends in similar positions.

I feel like unless I would choose to progress to SLT, which I don't particularly want to do, then my salary will probably stay around this mark, whereas if I were someone working in the private sector it would continue to rise, and that's a reason I can't see myself staying in the classroom forever!

I don’t think my position is privileged. Advantageous, possibly.

Screamed, I know that. The point is, a good salary is still a good salary. There might be high outgoings on a good salary which means there is little left at the end of the month, but it is still a good salary.

Main pay scale teacher - outside of London 24k - 36k, London area 25k -37k

In both areas Teachers will not hit 30k until they have raised to MPS4 - so minimum of their 4th year of teaching (IF the progression gets approved). Once you are UPS you are expected to have an impact on the wider school not just your classroom so extra responsibility.

So no most teachers are not on 30k - 40k many ( especially as si May leave in the first 3-4 years of teaching) don't get to 30k.

I’m not going to doxx myself to stop your troll hunting mal, sorry and all that.

So many not si May!