To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

They are my colleagues, not my staff.

the majority of teachers go into the profession to teach not necessarily to climb the greasy pole.

No, that's absolutely fair - and that is part of the problem with it; to get more money then it takes you away from what you entered the profession to do. But then it opens up the question - are people who are becoming teachers having their expectations managed appropriately, in terms of the pay structure and what they can realistically achieve and still stay in the classroom? And (school finances notwithstanding) how can GOOD teachers be rewarded for the work they do? Because this is part of the problem, I think, with set pay scales and automatic increments - it doesn't differentiate between the great teachers and the ones who are treading water year on year, whereas perhaps in a freer market then there would be more scope to financially reward the people on the front line, as it were.

Newyearnewnameforme
If I was just a ‘normal teacher’, though, I’d be on 40k, which is still fine.

MPS ends @ £35,008 (not London) £40 K is London weighting.

UPS includes extra responsibilities.

And pensions are good but I contribute over 10% of my salary towards mine, rather higher than the average pension contribution!

Also if you truly believe that you haven't got the brains or talent to work in the city and also believe you don't have much to offer society then get out of teaching: the students in your care deserve much better than to settle for someone like you.

If I was just a ‘normal teacher’, though, I’d be on 40k, which is still fine.

Yes, that’s the top of UPS.

The problem is that now, many new teachers going into the role won’t ever get to UPS3 as schools don’t have the budgets-they are simply stuck!

It is a problem and probably more prevalent in primary.

gruffalo behave yourself.

Yes OP I’m a part time teacher...12 hours a week and I take home 1400 after tax!!no extra responsibilities!! Love it!! But as a rule I disagree teachers wages are shit!!

Forgot my comma 🤣 I disagree, teachers wages ARE shit!

I’ve been teaching 13 years and I am HOD and don’t earn anywhere near that! Lucky you- if I earned that I’d be very happy!!

The things is ‘teachers’ is a wide ranging concept here. DH and I are both teachers, we both qualified 21 years ago. DH earns around £60k whereas I earn around £35k. He is SLT in a large secondary school, I am a SENDCO and class teacher in a primary school. I work longer hours as more of my work is completed after school hours, he has spent years completing a masters degree and so I’d more highly qualified. He has potential to increase his salary, realistically I don’t.

So your statement is true in your own case, but not for all.

Good point LBO. I work very rurally and there are no tlr or posts above mainscale in my school apart from the slt. It's the same in many rural schools. There is no way of rewarding good teaching apart from entering slt - which lots of people just don't want to do. Largely because it means working with people like OP.

The pensions will be fucked Within the next 5 years

I understand you might not want to, queen but you could raise your salary. I’m not for a moment suggesting you do, but it would technically be possible.

@Newyearnewnameforme

YOU might be on £40,000 as a ‘Norma teacher’ but most are not.

I can assure you that most normal teachers are not earning £40,000. Implying that is the case is wrong.

whereas perhaps in a freer market then there would be more scope to financially reward the people on the front line

Have you thought this one through? If you reward teachers not for experience and responsibilities but through your perception of how good they are, how do you judge that quality?

Two ways that I can see.

The first is through student (and perhaps parent) evaluations. Let me tell you as an academic that this is a deeply problematic course and we have fought very hard to get the student evaluations out of pay negotiations for good reasons. Repeated surveys have shown that exactly the same material will be judged differently by students depending on whether it is delivered by a male or female, and by a white person or a black.

The second is by results. Teacher X gets a pay rise because 50% of her students got an A in biology but teacher Y does not because only 48% of hers did. You can imagine how that will make teachers X and Y look on the prospect of having pupil Z, who suffers from a chronic illness and has frequent hospital attendances, in their class. As the parent of the child who actually attempted suicide because she knew her ill health made her a liability to the school, I am not keen on this one.

UPS 3 is £40,000.

It irritates me that you have used your own (very unrepresentative) salary to claim teachers are well paid. Also that your posts are perpetuating myths that a) teachers moan about being underpaid, when they aren't and b) teachers aren't clever enough to do highly avoid jobs.

Most research into teacher satisfaction show that the biggest issues for teachers, and the reason they're unhappy and/or leaving the profession, is workload and student behaviour. Despite the fact that most teachers earn well below the OPs salary, it's not something that bothers teachers that much.

With respect to your view that classroom teachers chose to be 'just' a classroom teacher; are you not aware of the cuts to school budgets? Have you not seen (for a decade at least I've seen it) that staff, particularly in primary, are asked to take on responsibilities with no remuneration? Staff take on subject leads with no extra pay, no TLR, nothing but a promise it will look good for UPS or CV.

I was a stem graduate, teaching a core stem subject at secondary. I was HOD and later SLT. I earned about £50k after 20 years in my profession. Despite this being a pretty low wage compared to other stem graduates after 20 years of climbing the career ladder, it was the workload, not the salary, that led me to leave.

But kolo, I’m not.

Someone asked me what I was paid and I answered.

I do think as a whole teaching is reasonably paid. I think most teachers who don’t have additional responsibilities will earn between £30-40k and I think that’s pretty good.

I have other issues with teaching but pay isn’t one of them.

I take it you aren't a classroom teacher? Perhaps higher up?

This is such an odd thread. It’d be like me posting saying AIBU to think lawyers are well paid, then following it up with “well I’m well paid, so it follows that legal aid lawyers are also well-paid. Oh, they’re not? OK well they have the option of being a different kind of lawyer, like me, and becoming well paid, perhaps they should do that?”

There’s a huge spectrum of salary in teaching and I’m puzzled by your view that teaching is well paid because you yourself are well paid, without having regard to how feasible it is for every teacher to advance to your position.

LBO I completely disagree with you about freer market. It’s the introduction of prp that is partly responsible for the current mess.
There are no automatic pay progressions any more. Pay progression is dependent on ‘outcomes’ which are set by people who have no idea what they’re talking about. This is why young, over-confident white middle class men get the best pay rises and everyone else is screwed over. Why do you thing education has one of the worst gender pay gaps? Is it because women make shit teachers?
cory was spot on about good teachers taking on responsibilities that don’t get recognised by management.

Try again

Most teachers without additional responsibilities earn between 30 and 40k which I think is reasonable.

My 23 yo sister earns the same amount and she often skives "works from home". She hasn't stepped foot in her office since the 19th or logged into work as it's very much the norm. She often leaves her office at 4pm and is by no means stressed.

Oh, and she pays no rent.

Lucky cow.

Newyearnewnameforme You can think what you like, but that doesn't make it true.