As an older man user (65)

[ButterflyBook]

I see a lot of posts asking for advice about symptoms, children's injuries, often with pictures. Thinking back to when my children were small and I was hundreds of miles away from family, husband worked away for weeks at a time and I had to make these judgement calls alone without benefit of the internet - do any of you think this is de-skilling mothers?
Not saying it's a bad thing to ask Mumsnet, I wish I'd had a access in those dark old days. But can't help thinking it's taking away some of the innate human autonomy that guides our decisions. I know it's good to share and ask, but sometimes there's nobody to share with or ask. Will it make us lose the ability to cope alone?

I think your post are rather confusing. You're opinion seems to have changed numerous times. So I'll wish you a happy new year. I'm out.

Better that people ask and nobody is harmed than the opposite.

Personally I find that many of the posts are good from a learning perspective. My kids have never had worms or HFM for instance but I will recognise it if it happened.

When you were younger, medical appointments were easier to obtain and if only one parent worked then it was easier to see the doctor during the day.

I also suspect that extended families were more involved. I have no mum, MIL or other adults with kids in my family that I can ask for advice (older siblings, aunts etc) I am
winging it and hoping for the best

FWIW I am more skilled than my mum(born 1952) She's never mowed a lawn, wired a plug, built flatpack, changed the wifi password or offered financial advice despite a career in finance. (I remember her showing me how to sew a nametape but got ragey that I didn't automatically sweat neatly)

I suspect that there was less fear of social services for my mum's generation. People now have to worry about not attracting the attention of social services by letting 8 year olds walk to school etc

Knowing where to go and who to ask for help is a skill. You still have to take the info you are given and process it accordingly. The number of times I have to tell my age 60+ family members and work colleagues to google something...ridiculous! Literally daily. We have information at our finger tips now and that's not going to change. My Mum had a book in the 1980's about family first aid. I don't need the book - the internet is the 21st century equivalent.

I think this is no different than say a community of housewives (only because you mention mothers) meeting each other regularly ie everday on the street, in shops, at coffee mornings etc sharing information. Nowadays every street does contain mother but they aren’t always at home during the day to share information with each other so now they use the internet and continue to share skills and knowledge. No de-skilling here as the skills are being passed on.

And how many kids from your generation didn't get taken to hospital and died from meningitis because they're parents assumed it was chicken pox. How many assumed theyre childs SEN was theyre kids being thick and went undiagnosed because they couldnt ask anyone whod been through it if something was worrying? Its the same argument as "we never used to wear seatbelts and were fine". Good for you. Many died or where permanently paralysed without seatbelts. But you were fine so everyone was. Access to information should never be curtailed and the more informed you are the better choices you make. The amount of teen pregnacies have gone down because teens can access the information. In previous generations they were reliant on parenta that felt they could discuss it with theyre kids, open teachera, friends or porn.

If I have a medical question I look it up on the NHS website or whatsapp paramedic DBro or a doctor school friend.

If DM had a medical question when we were DC she had a big book of family medicine or she popped round to or phoned relatives who were Drs/Nurses.

So I don't think things have changed lots really. We just have quicker access to information.

Considering how many idiots come on MN asking others to read their pregnancy tests I’m not really surprised

And how many kids from your generation didn't get taken to hospital and died from meningitis because they're parents assumed it was chicken pox

Exactly. Skills are learnt- you aren't born knowing how to deal with a medical emergency or how to do CPR- you LEARN these skills. How on earth could having access to more information be a bad thing?! You dont show up to a first aid course only to be told- "we can't teach you CPR because it might "de-skill" you. See how ridiculous that sounds?

As for self reliance, thats all very well but what if your hunches are wrong? what if you believe your kid's rash is fine but its actually meningitis? Relying on gut feelings and hunches when it comes to medical issues is an extremely dangerous way to live.
Information and education is NEVER a bad thing.

@grumpyhoonmain had I not spent 4 years trying to conceive before IVF, and with an irregular cycle so regularly taking tests as it wasn’t as simple as waiting until my period was due (and it arriving so not having to bother!), I might agree with you. But with possibly more than the average experience of squinting at tests, I can tell you sometimes they are tricksy little buggers, even before you get into the added dimension of hope. Without the internet, I’d never have heard of evaporation lines and would have got my hopes up a number of times for ghostly lines!

Well, my mom (still) has a book OP which she would refer to - a family medical textbook type a thing - that's what most people referred to before tinternet. Some still do refer to them, Dr Google is awful for hyperchondriacs especially. Forums are good for discussing ailments, not emergencies.

How many assumed theyre childs SEN was theyre kids being thick and went undiagnosed because they couldnt ask anyone whod been through

I didn't. I knew within the first 3 months even though the doctors said she was fine. No suck reflex you see. You have to actually feed the baby to pick that up. I used to gently dribble the milk into her mouth from a bottle. Drs, hvs nobody really believed me. Still, I was proved right in the end though it's given me no joy.

My mum had been a nurse before having my brother and me. When I was a kid (1960s), half the neighbours round our way would come and knock at our door asking my ma to inspect a rash and give advice, to administer first aid and all sorts. She nearly delivered a baby once, but the paramedics got there with a few minutes to spare!

I don't think asking others is a new thing, it's just that the internet has made it easier.

And people often used to have a first aid manual or guide to childhood ailments at home to refer to, now everyone asks Dr Google.

I'm 57 and remember the days before internet and after. I was a mum before and often felt really lonely.
I never do now, there is always someone to chat to and ask for advice. I love social media.

Again, you’re just being deliberately obtuse.

Do you want a medal because you are more confident in your judgement and you are more self reliant and you spotted that your baby did not suck?

Stop dismissing the poster’s point based on an anecdote of one.

Do you really think that a mother who posts on here today, that their newborn is struggling to suck, is going to be de-skilled as a result of the internet?

Far from it. She’s just as skilled as you were, in reaching out for help.

And she may well end up more knowledgeable, given that there are plenty of reasons why suck reflex might not be well developed:

• cerebral palsy
• prematurity
• actual no issue at all, but incorrect breastfeeding technique, leading to poor latch

If there is anything like an “innate” skill - it’s perhaps a human desire to check with other people. To watch and learn. To be part of a social group to do that.

That’s the same skill whether you reach for the internet to google sucking problems, or reach for the Reader’s Digest Family Medical. It’s just that you have to exercise more skill to research now, because of the options and the lack of robust science of many. And you have to exercise more skill to sift through the options.

I completely disagree with you about de-skilling.

I agree OP. Some of the stuff posters ask on here is utterly ridiculous.

OP , i find it concerning when they turn into competitive not going to A and E threads!

Do you want a medal because you are more confident in your judgement and you are more self reliant and you spotted that your baby did not suck?

Hardly confident. Worried and scared. You're a bit obtuse yourself.

I didn't say I thought mumsnetters were de skilling. I asked if people thought it was a risk. Apparently some do most don't

I completely disagree with you about de-skilling
I didn't say it was my opinion. I was inviting others opinions.

I didn't say that was my opinion. I was asking if anyone

Sorry, messed up last post. Bloody influx of jollity from the garden. Too cold out there for me.

You didn’t say you were worried and scared - though of course I would imagine you were.

What you said, was that you thought not having the internet gave you more confidence in your decisions - and the gist of your thread is that you think those with the internet are de-skilled and therefore do not develop the same self confidence.

It is quite possible to be worried and scared but confident at the same time. I was worried and scared when I had a miscarriage - didn’t stop me being confident that I knew what was going on.

Look, you think that not having the internet made you more confident. Maybe it did. I just don’t think you can extrapolate that to meaning that those who have it, will be less confident. Or de-skilled.

You didn’t say it was your opinion?

Have you been on the New Year wine?

You started off saying you can’t help but think that... so, do you think it or not 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’m logging off, stuck away from home working the overnight - too many contradictions for me!

It’s just life. Life moves forward. Back in the ‘dark days’ people thought it was ok to put a drop of whisky in a babies bottle to help sleep when teething.

You know if your kid is sick. Intrinsically. Now we can go armed to the doctors with the diagnosis and remedy

Yes, OP, we’re all slack-jawed and deskilled. Teach us how to be like you, facing down illness and emergency armed only with a disprin and a copy of Dr Spock.