As an older man user (65)

[ButterflyBook]

I see a lot of posts asking for advice about symptoms, children's injuries, often with pictures. Thinking back to when my children were small and I was hundreds of miles away from family, husband worked away for weeks at a time and I had to make these judgement calls alone without benefit of the internet - do any of you think this is de-skilling mothers?
Not saying it's a bad thing to ask Mumsnet, I wish I'd had a access in those dark old days. But can't help thinking it's taking away some of the innate human autonomy that guides our decisions. I know it's good to share and ask, but sometimes there's nobody to share with or ask. Will it make us lose the ability to cope alone?

I think there is an element of truth to what you are saying.

I was chatting to an elderly relative about this and she commented that she thinks parenting is much more stressful these days because of online stuff - she thinks that parents are held to a higher standard then she was.

I've found it to be a mixed blessing, the advice online can be useful but it can also make you worry more then you need to.

Mmm, no, I dont feel de-skilled because of the internet.
Though I do find it funny that it's usually people of my parent's generation moaning that we use the internet to solve our problems. Surely that generation is the one who should have taught the younger generation these coveted skills!
The resource is there, so people would be silly not to use it. It would be like lighting candles because people used to 'do without' electricity, IMO.

Well its just the times we're in and sometimes a second i opinion will help or as oft happenes, several second opinions.

Oftnn we get a mum or parent whos a bit torn as to what to do with an ill or sick child its quite normal not to want to make a fuss but sometimes a posting here will result in a "stop waiting get him or her to A&E now"! now making that descions alone sometimes can be very difficulet having a 100 odd posters, most mums and parents themsleves, plus the odd GP on the board is a shall we say usefull rescource.

As to the tech just the times we live in, many years ago out where our lot came from there were no phones and often you had to seek help yourself, before that there was a doctor for miles and before that the only way to keep the population increasing was to have loads of children in the hope "some" would make it to adulthood you ought to see our family tree! poor women in those days, 1750 odd were alomost pregnant all their adult lives!!

I'm a single mum of 4 teens at home. Yes, I would ask advice on here if I felt I needed to. Your attitude op, is not helpful at all. We all need guidance every now and then.

Probably not. I was viewing from the standpoint of those who are isolated from these channels of support.
One of the great things about MN is that however isolated you feel, day or night, your question will be discussed and answered. Just because you had to do it on your own back in the day doesn't mean parents in this day and age are failing by asking for help or advice.

There were always anxious mothers who would've turned to a doctor for the slightest thing. There were always those who had some knowledge, or were generally calmer in the face of illness.

There were always those who had support, and there were always those who didn't have 2 brain cells, and could make ridiculous choices because they just listened to themselves, or one other person who knew nothing.

The difference is, now you SEE the nightmare of mothering in all its glory, which is why you end up with "ffs, get to A&E!", or "what are you flapping about, woman, it's a hang nail!".

All these were here, YOU just didn't see them.

Some people have excellent instincts, but despite the name, they don't often come from nowhere. Those mothers have seen illnesses growing up, read something, whatever, and it's left a tiny bit of an imprint. Combine that with knowing what's normal for your child, and you have instinct.

The most worrying thing, I think, is the constant minimising as a first step. Dismissing women, and their concerns, means that they no longer trust them. THAT'S a problem.

OP,. I kind of agree, but not about parenting but when people ask for reassurance over the most pedestrian topics, it just seems so needy

I just sometimes wonder how my kids ever survived when they only had me to make the ultimate decision

And when my mum was young a friend of hers put her DS in hospital repeatedly by not following formula guidelines (think making up days worth and not refrigerating). If only she could have posted on mumsnet for advice?

The context of what "muddling through" means has changed rapidly in the years since your generation were parents of young kids though.

I think about when my Grandma has kids vs my Mum and now my sister and friends (as I don't have kids yet). My Grandma lived a few miles from her family, her Mum was local, as were all her other relatives and school friends, so she had immense knowledge to draw upon very nearby. Her whole job was being a Mum, to the extent that she was asked to leave her workplace when she married! Maternity and health visits were often peripatetic, making it easy to regularly ask healthcare professionals questions.

When my Mum had us in the early 90's, both sets of Grandparents were retired/semi-retired in their 50's so, even though they lived a few hours away, they could drop everything to help out. Neither of my grandmas had worked in decades, and many of the people in my Mum's social circle were SAHMs for the early years because there was still no maternity leave and childcare was harder to find. So again, there were plenty of face to face resources to draw on to support that muddling through. My mum also had community-based maternity and health visits, and it wasn't hard to get a doctors appointment.

Today, I can't name a single friend with a child whose parents are retired. Most of their parents are both working full time and can't drop everything to help them. I know very few women who have left the workplace after maternity leave to have kids, meaning they are also time pressured and less likely to have a tight group of Mum friends with whom they can ask these questions. NHS underfunding means it's hard to get doctor's appointments, and lots of the community-based care which used to exist doesn't any more. Mumsnet and other social networking sites are always accessible though, providing an easy means to ask questions that would have gone to friends or family members.

We muddled through

The difference is that the internet has made people much more aware of the things that can very rarely go wrong. The 1 in a millions that only friends and family would have been aware of are now broadcast on social media across the country to 'raise awareness'

MN is a symptom rather than a cause.

That said there’s no harm in getting opinions if you’re stuck making a decision

Agreed. I said I thought it was a good thing. But perhaps it was taking away some of our self reliance.

MN and other online sites would have been invaluable to me

To me too. Was just observing that we didn't have it and had to think on our feet

of course there were books, TV, telephones, newspapers, and magazines etc back in the day, so plenty of resources to call on if you needed them. So some good advice was available to the older age group. But the biggest difference would have been that - if you had a phone! - you could call a doctor and they would come out ‘out of hours’ in an emergency.

So expert opinion was reasonably easily available.

This is now unheard of, and medical resources are stretched tight in this country. So people use other resources to help them, whether people or online material, which I do think is a benefit overall.

People have useful knowledge at their fingertips, whereas previously you had to know it already or hunt for it (in a book, at a library, for example). And some of it would have been guesswork, or luck, good or bad.

I have picked up useful things from MN I wouldn’t necessarily have known otherwise. On the other hand I think increased knowledge can cause increased anxiety.

By definition, the OP is unlikely to have known what proportion of mothers who were making urgent medical decisions in isolation from advice and support were coping or not coping (or making good or poor decisions or unable to make a decision at all if that is what is meant). Any more than those of us who do use the internet as a resource have any idea about what is going on with people who don’t have that as a resource (though these days I imagine there is more active research into these things)

Oh and my MIL in her very early 60s 'muddled through'' by putting butter on bruises and raw potato on the outside of a sore throat because that's what she learnt from her older female family members and never questioned it.

I would hope MN would have short shrift for that kind of thing these days.

TheQueef

Typo in title?

^^

Finally the comment of the year!

YANBU to ask the question. I often think how much the internet has affected all aspects of life. It's so easy to look up information that we don't need to remember things in the way we used to. And you're probably right we rely on gut instinct less. Whether that's a good or bad thing, I'm not sure.

Oh my gosh, my kids are 11 and 9 and over the years my gut and knowing my kids has been my biggest guide, impossible to ignore that mother instinct, and when something serious is afoot, trust me, we aren’t online asking MN, we are on our way to A&E or minor injuries. That gut instinct hasn’t gone away...
I would say that on the less worrying minor symptoms, you have your own ideas but, yes why not check in online since it is available. I’m sure you would have if it was at your fingertips back then.

Your attitude op, is not helpful at all. We all need guidance every now and then

I've said it's helpful and that I wish I'd had access. I agree with you

managedmis er why is that comment of the year? There was indeed a typo.

De-skilling?

Hardly.

When I was born 50 years ago, if my mother was unsure what to do about (say) a rash, she could look at the huge grey Reader’s Digest Family Medical. She could as my Dad. Her neighbour. Phone one of her sisters, or friends. Or the out of hours emergency doctor.

There was no more “innate human autonomy” (and I think you mean learned by necessity anyway, not innate) then than now. The mothers that rushed to phone a sister are the same ones that grab their phone now. Both sensible things to do.

If you leave aside medical emergency and include all aspects of parenting - like that old favourite, my child won’t sleep - then I think that the information online now is quite the opposite of de-skilling.

In my mum’s day, there’d be one prevailing opinion in the social group - given there was little cultural variation. There might be another opinion in a book.

Now, using the Internet, a parent has to use much more skills of research, and much more skills of knowing how to - technical term - wade through crap.

When my child is learning about research at primary school, they talk FAR more about how to be critical and the important of checking sources than we ever did at my primary - where we just accepted if you read it in the Encyclopaedia Brittanica, it was fact.

Now a parent might go on line and get 6 different opinions on how to teach their child to sleep. The have to sift through those, think about how they might work for them. Feel bewildered.

That’s an increased level of decision making that is a greater skill than “just leaving baby to CIO because that’s what my older sister said works”.

Different sets of resources, different skills - maybe.

De-skilling? No.

I’m with @JacquesHammer though

You do see some stupid questions when the answer is basic common sense, for example "My child's arm is hanging off, should I take him to the GP or just give him some calpol?

But I don't think that it is deskilling mothers on the whole. Presumably back in the day you still asked for advice off parents/siblings/neighbours/doctors/
friends? People npwadays have just substituted these with the internet.

I also people ask for opinion's on child ailments because they are worried about wasting the NHS' time nowadays.

Please excuse all the errors in the post above, it is NYE and I am a bit drunk.