As an older man user (65)

[ButterflyBook]

I see a lot of posts asking for advice about symptoms, children's injuries, often with pictures. Thinking back to when my children were small and I was hundreds of miles away from family, husband worked away for weeks at a time and I had to make these judgement calls alone without benefit of the internet - do any of you think this is de-skilling mothers?
Not saying it's a bad thing to ask Mumsnet, I wish I'd had a access in those dark old days. But can't help thinking it's taking away some of the innate human autonomy that guides our decisions. I know it's good to share and ask, but sometimes there's nobody to share with or ask. Will it make us lose the ability to cope alone?

Continue, little meadow

I'm an older user too. I think it's just different now - on the one hand some of the questions do boggle me (generally 'should I eat this' or 'should we go to A&E') but on the other hand if the wonderful Mumsnet community had existed when my children were little I would have been a far more confident mum - or wouldn't have had children with XDH at all, which would probably have been a good thing.

On balance I think forums like this/social media etc Upskill more than they downskill.

Plenty of people were clueless and panic prone back in ye olden days - it's just that now we get to see it all online

That's it. It's true. I am sort of being a bit unreasonable.

I’m an older user too so no internet to refer to when DC were little. I did however have shelves of baby care manuals and magazines that I could use.

Ultimately, whether we seek reassurance and advice from family, neighbours, printed matter, websites or forums like this we then process the information we are given and assume responsibility for our DC so I do think YABU.

On sleepless nights when it seemed the whole world but me and the screaming baby was asleep being able to tap into the MN mindset could have been a massive comfort. Lucky mums of today who have this nest of vipers just a few clicks away.

The mothers that rushed to phone a sister are the same ones that grab their phone now. Both sensible things to do

I'm talking about people who didn't have phones or near neighbours or family nearby. I'm talking about making a decision without consultation

Yes but how do you know that the ones who you find frustrating on MN aren’t the same ones who would otherwise be asking relatives, neighbours etc? You don’t - it’s impossible to tell. There are still (permanently or temporarily) isolated mothers out there dealing with things as best they can, as you did. Using MN posters as a comparison is not really useful because you aren’t comparing like with like

We all make dozens of decisions every day regarding our kids. But sometimes we use MN to pick the brains of other people. It can be reassuring. Why is it wrong to seek help from others when that help is available around the clock?

No. I think it allows for more informed decisions to be made by mothers more easily thus allowing for fewer mistakes and deaths.

It's actually using technology to crowdfund and up skill.

Oh, bother, a good ol' 'Back in my day we didn't have all this but by golly, we survived and we learned 'em all how, ye snowflakes' thread.

@ButterflyBook just how obtuse do you want to be?
I’ll take an educated guess that you had your children not more than 60 years ago.
How many people in 1960 were living so rurally that they didn’t have near family and neighbours?

Plenty would have family nearer than today.

Why are you trying to compare a very small number of very geographically isolated people, making decisions alone, with women today? Not the actual typical cohort of the time - who were turning to friends, family, books, the HV... you know, back in the days when HV didn’t have such a wide area to cover and (in my late 60s childhood) my mum had the same one for all 4 children?

Just how many women were totally geographically isolated in 1960?

I think the isolated woman now, is one who is illiterate and cannot access the amazing resource that is the internet, or financially cannot access it. Or lives in certain areas of Norfolk A place where you can get amazing levels of information from people who genuinely care about a stranger online. Who will post not only advice, but moral support.

I believe that there were isolated women in 1960, in 1860... but no more so than today, just perhaps different reasons.

The vast majority of the women that you think are superior skilled to the women on here, really were running to the advice sources they had. No different.

I’m mid 50s My dm coped with a mostly absent husband and five children. We didn’t have a phone until I was 15 so late 70s.

However, she knew every one of the neighbours, the lady who ran the corner shop, we had the same GP for my whole childhood. A district nurse within a few minutes walk. People didn’t move around so much so she had people she knew to turn to, face to face rather than on-line.

Today is not so different, just on-line.

There was no more “innate human autonomy” (and I think you mean learned by necessity anyway, not innate) then than now

Appreciate the correction, thanks. I left school at 15 so didn't have much time to study the finer points of language. However, I find people more than willing to help me out even when they actually understood exactly what I meant.

OP I am thinking yy some of us do rather rely on the Interweb for quick fix answers to frankly simple questions... that could have been sorted with about two seconds of thought. But by asking it on here - or local FB noticeboard - they've had a moment of interaction.

www.amazon.co.uk/Can-Any-Mother-Help-Me/dp/0571282172?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

You might enjoy this book. About women reaching out to others for parenting advice in 1935.

Do you think the mums of 1905 tutted at their de-skilling too?

Oh and for a couple of posters up thread - I had no access to telephone, or mains electricity, until I was nineteen, which was 1984. In England, and not even particularly rural. It just hadn't got this far.

@MoaningMinniee that’s a good point. There’s a woman on my village place book page who 3x a year-ish on bank holidays will ask “does anyone know if the Co-op is open today?”

Honestly, I rolled my eyes and was tempted to post the “let me google that for you” link first couple of times But actually - I think she just wants to feel part of a village community. It’s about contact, not about being too lazy to look it up herself.

I had children long before the internet and I think it is much better that it is easy to get information quickly. It's also good to be able to chat about something instantly if you are worried, as long as you remember that other people don't necessarily know better than you. You have to make your own judgement in the end anyway but it is reassuring not to be isolated. My parents were on their own with us when the other parent was at work with no phone, no car and no family nearby. I guess they would have asked a neighbour if desperate.

Can't remember who asked, but when my children were small I had no living family apart from a mentally ill older brother. I had neighbours within a 5 minute walk but I didn't know any of them. Ribbon development, no pavements. So I had lots of decision making moments. I managed. I was just comparing Mumsnet with my own experience. Wish I'd had it but wonder if not having it has given me more confidence in my own judgement, and self reliant.

Why is it wrong to seek help from others when that help is available around the clock?

Nowhere, anywhere, ever, have I said I think it's wrong. I think it's good.

My mother lived over the road from her mother, her SIL lived around the corner and she had a community of mothers in the street to ask for advice. MN is no different to that in this case.

I think I’m more skilled now I have the internet. I tell my mum things that she had no idea about when I was a baby.

I think it’s fair for you to say, “I would have liked to have had MN, but I think that not having the internet to rely on and making my decisions alone has made me more self reliant and confident in my own judgement”.

I don’t think there is any reason for you to then extrapolate that younger women do not have your self reliance and confidence.

Look around you.

Do you work?

I am surrounded by fabulous ‘millennials’ and younger, who are so filled with passion, confidence, resilience, self reliance, critical thinking, good decision making ability - they’re just fabulous!

You might run across the road to ask your neighbour, or you might post here. This is just another avenue, a resource.

Gut instinct, parental instinct is great. As is the support form friends family and local community if you have that.

And yes you might find yourself in a situation where you are not in a position to get external advice. But I feel like I could keep on going with you could do this that and the other and I’d still get a ‘yeah but what if’ response.

That’s life, we adapt, we learn we think for ourselves and I do not for a second think sites like this or t’interweb will stop that.
It’s just a different way of accessing info.

@Selfsettling3 Same with my family. I think it’s a fairly modern problem to be totally isolated as better communities previously. My mum knew most people on her street and now I only know a couple.