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Original poster

Cyprus is no longer a safe place for (young, single) women to holiday?

725 replies

Kraai · 30/12/2019 11:57

The teen went back to her ONS's room for consensual sex. When there, 11 of his mates burst in and filmed while three of them then raped her. She went to the police and reported it. They were detained. They said it was consensual and was "with love" (I kid you not!). She was interviewed at length with no legal representation and the police decided she was lying. She was then charged with the crime of making up a crime and has been unable to come home since the summer. The guys were all allowed to return to Israel where some of them have since said things indicating she wasn't lying at all and I'm pretty sure the video was shared (from memory, which may be wrong). She's had psychological evaluation saying she's suffering badly from PTSD.

It's worth noting that the Cyprus is a very popular destination for young Israelis to let off steam before they start national service and there's a strong political tie between the two.

So, AIBU to say that Cyprus is no longer a safe destination for young woman? If the worst happens to you and you report it and the police think you're not a credible witness, YOU will end up in jail. Knowing how traumatic reporting something like a stolen wallet in a foreign police station can be, the idea that a woman would be interviewed without legal representation in a state of severe distress, however that manifests, and then not believed and charged means that men have been given free rein to rape in Cyprus. Especially if it's in a potential "grey zone".

https://www.bbc.com/news/videoandd_audio/headlines/50944483/cyprus-rape-claim-case-it-s-a-very-worrying-conviction

OP posts:
Datun · 03/01/2020 12:41

Devereux1

It's not really about you at all, to be honest. It's about the idea that people are claiming that this woman laughed and posed on a video, that most people believe was one where she was gang raped.

I have not heard any of those claims. Which isn't to say they don't exist. You have. If you let me know where they are, I can investigate for myself.

I've read several different newspaper reports, one which said the judge furiously demanded she keep respecting him.

But nothing about this laughing and posing. So I want to know where it comes from.

It's entirely relevant to the thread and the issue at hand.

Datun · 03/01/2020 12:44

I sometimes name change to come on AIBU because I get followed everywhere I go by people from Twitter.

It's in an effort to not bring an unwelcome entourage in my wake.

Devereux1 · 03/01/2020 12:57

Datun

If it's about the idea that people are claiming that this woman laughed and posed on a video, then surely a question which was asking for the facts of such a claim would not only be valid, but welcomed? Instead, some posters here extrapolate a rational question to some very twisted assumptions.

I first saw these claims here on Mumsnet by other posters. I then saw mention of this in media reports. It was a line used in the men's defence, apparently. I was shocked by this claim and was certain that posters who have repeatedly liked to have made it clear that they have studied all the facts would obviously know where on earth it came from and why. Instead, I've been met with a barrage of "how dare you ask such a question" censorship.

Devereux1 · 03/01/2020 13:00

Datun
I sometimes name change to come on AIBU because I get followed everywhere I go by people from Twitter.

Well, if you're Habbers, your alter ego leaves a lot to be desired. You usually come across pretty intelligently.

Datun · 03/01/2020 13:03

I first saw these claims here on Mumsnet by other posters. I then saw mention of this in media reports

Okay, well that's probably why you thought I might have had an agenda. (Without knowing who I was, hopefully).

As I have not seen any of those claims, other than in your post. It wasn't that I wanted to stop you asking the questions, I wanted to find out where those claims were coming from.

Because, for me, there are two issues. If it's true, people need to be disabused of the notion that it has anything to do with a subsequent rape.

And if it's not true, what is the source?

I haven't seen it mentioned in media reports. But if it's people talking about it on Twitter, without a source, then I wouldn't know that, because I'm not on it.

Devereux1 · 03/01/2020 13:06

Okay, well that's probably why you thought I might have had an agenda.

I didn't think you had an agenda. I just thought you were being arrogant, perverse in your logic, and damn well out of order.

PanicAndRun · 03/01/2020 13:16

So who is claiming she was laughing and posing? Where have you found that info?

PanicAndRun · 03/01/2020 13:17

X post.

Can you link to the news articles you have read?

PurpleHoodie · 03/01/2020 13:20

Cyprus is now a big, fat, fucking NO as a holiday destination for our family.

I'll be passing on my thoughts to our travel agents.

JosefKeller · 03/01/2020 13:27

I'll be passing on my thoughts to our travel agents

ok...Confused

Datun · 03/01/2020 13:28

I didn't think you had an agenda. I just thought you were being arrogant, perverse in your logic, and damn well out of order.

Perhaps comments like those below indicate that you think someone has an agenda. One that goes beyond this thread.

It's just an unending narrative of your view of what and how other posters post.

You just keep on and on abour some acceptibility rating in your own mind.

I'm not in the slightest bit interested in any kind of acceptability rating. I'm not even entirely sure what it is.

But I am none the wiser as to where you 'keep hearing' that this woman posed and laughed in the video.

It's my one and only question. I've only repeated it, because I still don't know. And you are the only person in a position to enlighten me.

Perhaps you don't want to tell me. In which case saying so would be more useful.

Datun · 03/01/2020 13:32

Well, if you're Habbers, your alter ego leaves a lot to be desired. You usually come across pretty intelligently.

It's not an alter ego. It's a name change to avoid people following me, disrupting threads and getting them deleted.

A lot of people on FWR do it to stop TRAs continually name searching.

Datun · 03/01/2020 13:32

I don't do it on FWR. But other places on the site, could well do without a bunch of militant TRAs kicking off.

Findumdum1 · 03/01/2020 13:34

I was shown a video in which she had her back to the camera of the man secretly filming her. You could not see her face and I saw no laughing or smiling in it.

If there is video of her laughing and smiling perhaps it was while she was still having consensual sex with the one man she had agreed to go back to the room with and before she realised she was being filmed and before other men intervened. Wouldn't you ecpect someone having consensual sex with one person to be laughing and smiling?

As ususal contect is everything and the stuoid incels on twitter have no idea whether any video they have seen is genuine and at what point in proceedings it was filmed. I can't understand why these men can't see that it's perfectly possible that a consenual experience then later turned to a non consensual rape when the other men barged in.

paranoidmum2 · 03/01/2020 13:42

How convenient that the police got her to sign the recantation of the rape allegations without her lawyer present and without the meeting being recorded, one that last several hours.

Would you be happy with that happening to your daughter?

Datun · 03/01/2020 13:48

*As ususal contect is everything and the stuoid incels on twitter have no idea whether any video they have seen is genuine and at what point in proceedings it was filmed.

Findumdum1. Thanks for the info. So I take it this is the video that was sent to pornhub.

Also filming her secretly while she is facing the other way indicates the opposite of a laughing, smiling girl having group sex.

For me, the existence of a film is very important. Because I truly believe this girl.

Everything about the information indicates she is telling the truth. From the pidgin English statement, to the behaviour of the men, to the witnesses saying they were up for an orgy before it all started, The subsequent official denial that rape was even a possibility, the disregarding the information of the pathologist/doctor.

The decision that she is being prosecuted for lying, when it was not she who identified the men, or reported the rape.

And the way tiny details, that may or may not be entirely accurate, or fit the narrative 100%, are seized on to discredit.

I would stake everything I own that she is telling the truth. But I'm fully aware, that one tiny detail that doesn't quite fit will be used to discredit her.

Datun · 03/01/2020 13:50

How convenient that the police got her to sign the recantation of the rape allegations without her lawyer present and without the meeting being recorded, one that last several hours.

And yet people have asked how do we know she didn't refuse a lawyer. I believe she was there for 10 hours. With no recording of the proceedings and resulting in a statement that she clearly didn't write.

MissEliza · 03/01/2020 13:55

The DM has published the 'statement' given by that poor girl. There's no way that it was written by a native English speaker. There are many mistakes typical of non-native speakers eg 'appartement' instead of apartment. It's disgusting.

PanicAndRun · 03/01/2020 13:56

The narrative seems to be she wanted revenge/ was embarrassed because she was filmed and the video was leaked. That there is a premeditation and control over the complaint.

She didn't go to the doctor, her friends convinced her and took her. She had some control over this, but given the bleeding and her injuries would've been really daft and risky to refuse.

She didn't report the rape. The doctor did after examining and treating her . She had no control over that or any way to plan it.

She didn't name the boys. The guy she had the fling with did. She had no control over that or any way to plan it.

So how exactly did she seek revenge or try to get them back for "embarrassing " her?

paranoidmum2 · 03/01/2020 14:02

@Devereux1

I first saw these claims here on Mumsnet by other posters. I then saw mention of this in media reports

Can you link to these media reports? I haven’t read if any claims, I may have missed it?

Fraggling · 03/01/2020 14:06

'It was a line used in the men's defence, apparently'

The men haven't been tried though. Only the girl has for making false claims and the judge allowed no evidence about whether the rape happened.

I'm on both of the long threads on here and have also not seen any posts at all about videos of her laughing, the first and only time I heard it mentioned was on this thread.

Agree that if you want to find out more about it then you need to ask the people who've said it. Because this feels like just chucking random info onto the thread to imply she's guilty, prompted by no one on the thread, and with nothing to back it up.

I assume pornhub will have taken the video down by now, given that there's general agreement even amongst those who think she's guilty, that she was filmed without consent. (Yeah right they've probably got it featured).

PanicAndRun · 03/01/2020 14:15

Funny how their claim that they were beaten and abused doesn't get mentioned nearly as much or at all. Maybe because it would help the girl's case that the police aren't exactly exemplary in their conduct? And we can't have that now,can we?

paranoidmum2 · 03/01/2020 14:28

From the DM article mentioned above @MissEliza:

"The men accused were whisked back to Israel, arriving at Ben Gurion airport to chants of 'the Brit is a whore'"

MissEliza · 03/01/2020 14:43

@paranoidmum2 that's just nauseating isn't it?

paranoidmum2 · 03/01/2020 15:00

Truly nauseating, MissEliza. Even if the people chanting believe it wasn't rape, why is the woman a whore for having sex but the men who had sex with her are not 'whores'?