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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Unexpected use of holiday home

445 replies

Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/12/2019 11:17

Not quite Mexican House Thief - at least not yet! - but I'm trying no to get dragged into this and would welcome anyone's advice

Friend A has a holiday home in Florida and was persuaded to offer it to son of Friend B for a free fortnight's holiday with his girlfriend
Friend B's son (23) invited a load of mates to go instead, claiming his GF couldn't make it, but didn't tell A about this
Friend A - who's only just discovered this - has said no to the mates, some of whom are very dubious (a couple have convictions for affray)
Both B and her son insist flights to Orlando are all paid for, so it's now not fair to refuse them

As C I'm close to all of them, and though I'm trying to stay out of it I'm getting my ear thoroughly bent by everyone, expecting me to take sides. FWIW I believe B's son has been pretty deceitful over this and shouldn't expect to dictate who stays at someone else's home, but would be interested in the MN verdict

YABU = since flights are now paid for they should be allowed to go
YANBU = A should say no because she wasn't told those going had changed

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
fishonabicycle · 29/12/2019 17:17

I would have no qualms at all about telling them they need to find alternative accommodation.

BritWifeinUSA · 29/12/2019 17:19

I assume those with convictions have declared them on their ESTA applications and have secured B-2 visas if they were denied? Or are they going to hide that fact as well?

BaolFan · 29/12/2019 17:22

Mummyoflittledragon Grin

Neverhavetoomuchglitter · 29/12/2019 17:22

Even if they do lie on the Esta (and they would have to as it would be denied if they were honest) and are allowed to board the plane. They will face problems at immigration. A group of young males who sound like they are the type to drink on the flight will stand out like a sore thumb. They will be quizzed about why they are coming to the US and where they are staying etc. They do this with everyone. Basically if they don't like the look of you they can send you straight back home on the next flight and I've heard of people that have witnessed it. Us immigration is tough and I always feel nervous even though I've got nothing to hide!!

ProfessorSlocombe · 29/12/2019 17:23

Hopefully, A has some sort of maintenance or security firm looking after her property

highly likely minimum wage and armed.

Mummyoflittledragon · 29/12/2019 17:48

highly likely minimum wage and armed
What a reassuring combination. 😳

Graphista · 29/12/2019 17:57

Not Rtft only ops posts and a few earlier responses

Given the little I know about America I'm not sure if this is the case but IF the guy and his mates were allowed to stay and caused destruction/trouble I think there's a possibility the homeowner could also face censure even fines or worse from local authorities, residents associations etc ?

Another reason for a firm no I think (not that it's needed!) but might be worth mentioning to homeowner

Tistheseason17 · 29/12/2019 17:59

If i was A I would tell them, "no"

Then I would give their names to the US Embassy to ensure they did not get the chance to abuse the lovely holiday rental. Betcha B would not say a word or offer to pay for that if it was damaged. She'd just slope off and make new friends to abuse..

HannaYeah · 29/12/2019 18:10

I think B and son need to pay for a different rental since they also lied to all the people invited and said there was a place to stay available.

HoldMyLobster · 29/12/2019 18:16

I don’t know about other EU countries, but US border control do not have routine access to the UK’s databases holding people’s convictions. There’s no reasonable expectation that you’d be caught if you lied unless someone ratted you out.

Right - I think you can get an ESTA and get into the country fairly easily, even with a conviction, because it's not something they routinely check.

OTOH if in future you wanted to live or work in the US then you would have to provide police background checks from every country you've lived in.

The fact that you had a conviction that you hadn't declared on your ESTA application would then most likely result in a lifetime ban on entering the country.

HannaYeah · 29/12/2019 18:21

@graphista

You are right. Homeowner could be held liable for damage to other properties around. Assuming this is a condo or townhouse, rather than a standalone home, they could face problems and fines with the home owners association.

Many of these places have actual residents living nearby. Most all have rules about renting and loaning the place out.

Since A would be loaning, she doesn’t even have the protection of a contract with B’s son to go after him for any damages.

I can’t imagine a UK court would be interested in hearing about something that happened abroad.

Then the cost of hiring an attorney in the US to file suit against a non-US resident would be into the tens of thousands. Seeing as how most attorneys in US charge $300 an hour or more.

Then try getting B’s son back to the US to face the lawsuit. B is not liable herself for any damage her son does.

Basically, there’s not a single “pro” to letting a kid and his low class buddies use your vacation home.

I’d probably end the friendship with someone that even asked me such a ridiculous favor. B is a user. How dare she try to force A into this outrageous position?!

andyjusthangingaround · 29/12/2019 18:28

@Puzzledandpissedoff
Any update OP?

Numbers are mind boggling....2673 and counting

Unexpected use of holiday home
WaggleWiggle · 29/12/2019 18:29

I think 2679 votes with 100% saying YANBU is the biggest consensus I’ve seen on here!

Jokie · 29/12/2019 18:33

Hopefully B was not completely out of her mind when you told her she was being unreasonable.

For those asking about ESTA. The system isn't foolproof and people do slip through either way

Original poster
Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/12/2019 18:33

Well I'm back, and can't pretend that was pleasant. It turns out A has put her big girl pants on and called the DS to say exactly how she feels about what he tried to do; needless to say B got involved and has worked herself into a right state over how unfair it all is and how DS "didn't mean any harm". Frankly, from the way she's taking it so personally I'm starting to wonder if PPs aren't right that she knew the plan all along

Anyway I said my piece about nobody accepting large single sex groups these days and that in any case it was very rude and unfair of DS not to say anything about the change. I doubt it went in though, so she'll just have to sort it out with A if she wants to or sulk alone if not

I can do no more now, but to answer remaining questions, A - who was widowed in 2015 - found out about this because the bragging of some of DS's pals over their upcoming freebie got back to her.
Also she pays a neighbour to look out for the place rather than a formal security company, so in the unlikely event they turn up anyway she'll know about it fast

OP posts:
HannaYeah · 29/12/2019 18:35

Has B or her son ever been there before?

AJPTaylor · 29/12/2019 18:37

In fact, I would let them know that I had let it to someone else, no chance of them just going anyway

Lweji · 29/12/2019 18:37

Please say they never had the keys in their hands.

SexIsAProtectedCharacteristic · 29/12/2019 18:44

Yeah A needs to tell B she has let it to someone else now. Which will be the end of the matter as the person renting the place has obviously paid for it, unlike B's son.

DoTheNextRightThing · 29/12/2019 18:44

YANBU. She offered it to son and gf, not son and a load of mates.

sadeyedladyofthelowlandsea · 29/12/2019 18:44

I am a proper MN old gimmer, and I don't think I have EVER seen such unanimous agreement on a thread before.

OP, I imagine it was pretty unpleasant company for you today, but you've done your bit for now. B, her son & his mates sound like complete and utter arseholes, frankly. Can you get in touch with A to let her know that you have said something? Because I imagine B will be quick to get 'her' version of events known, and A will most likely welcome a bit of back up.

Original poster
Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/12/2019 18:45

Has B or her son ever been there before?

Yes, B took her DS there when he was small, which is how she knows the address

And to clarify, the house isn't a condo in a development but a SFH (single family home) with no community association involvement, so while the neighbours may be unhappy, at least there'd be little "official" comeback for any trouble

Not that it matters now, since DS certainly won't be able to use the place

OP posts:
DontGoIntoTheLongGrass · 29/12/2019 18:47

A isn't stopping them going on holiday, they're quite welcome to fly over there. Just not stay in her home Grin I wouldn't let them in a million years stay there! It'll be absolutely trashed!

flouncyfanny · 29/12/2019 18:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/12/2019 18:57

Can you get in touch with A to let her know that you have said something?

I already called her before posting at 18.33. She thanked me for at least trying and explained there's absolutely no way he'll be using that house, even in the unlikely event that B kept back a key from their visit years ago

For such a lovely lady, she's pretty upset over the way the DS has tried to use her and has basically just been pushed too far

OP posts: