To think this is unreasonable and this judge knowingly scentenced this man to death

[Sootyandsweep2019]

Just read a heartbreaking story in the paper about an 87 year old man, who given a 27 month prison sentence after he killed someone in a car accident. The judge was warned at the time by the man's doctors that this was highly likely to lead to his death; but went ahead and did it anyway. As predicted, he died nine days later. This was not murder, this was not malicious; it was a complete, tragic accident.

By all means ban him from driving if he was a danger, look at tightening the driving regulations around older drivers.

But our obsession with "making people pay," for genuine accidents has led to this utter tragedy .

The poor man must have been terrified. I really think this particular judge/ case needs urgent investigation; and we need a wider look at whether prison is always an appropriate response to car accident s like this.

Sadly I don't expect the judge/ CPS/ solicitors etc. Feel guilty at all.

Should he have been driving?
Regardless, he was driving
he mistook the pedals.
It was an awful accident
A custodial sentence was way OTT

It can take a lot for CPS to decide to prosecute , it's not a simple thing and has been seen above there were several reasons why.

Of course it's sad but it was also sad for the victim as well who also can never get their life back.

A life was lost and he did not take sensible precautions to prevent that therefore he is liable for the effect if the law. Do you also consider those sentences at 60 to 27 years unfair ? They may well also die in prison ? Hell a 30 year old may die in prison if there are health issues , or something happens.

I do think it's sad but I also think it's just generally sad and ultimately the judge had to make a call and he did. If he had made another call people would be shouting about letting the victim down.

If he's too old to be prosecuted then he's too old to be getting behind the wheel
^this, when you get into a car you have to take responsibility for your actions. He drove angry and dangerously, I think a prison sentence was right, he killed and maimed another because of his actions.

I'm so sorry for your loss @Laylalayla

i imagine he was angry with himself

Having read the article, I am actually shocked by the OP. How could anyone think this was a non preventable accident rather than pure negligence by someone driving when incapacitated in beyond me.

I can't imagine anyone who posted YANBU would feel just the same if it had been their mum, let alone their child.

but he didn't have any genuine intention to kill at all. What was the purpose of locking him up ? Do you believe he was a danger to the public ?

Anne Sacoolas, is that you?

I’d assume the judge knew more about the circumstances of the incident than we do.

Every accident I’ve read about where a driver mistakes the accelerator for the brake is always an older driver. It seems that kind of mistake just doesn’t happen in younger people with better reaction times.

Well, all the people asking what I would feel if this was my child; how would you feel if this was your elderly parents/ grandparent ?

The poor lady who died was my mum's age. I have more sympathy for her friends and family than the man who killed her.

“I have said he should be banned from driving, and that there should definitely be a review of driving requirements for 80+. Something that would actually make an accident like this much less likely.”

Changing driving requirements for all ppl aged over 80 is not within the sentencing judge’s remit.

I see a lot of old doddery people driving like terrifying fuckwits tbh. I once happened to be on my way home from work at the same time a very old woman drove across a junction on to a one way street going the wrong way, it had a bike path along it, my friend by weird coincidence was on the bike path and the old woman was going along basically with her bike right on the bumper, she hadn’t noticed her, nor had she noticed the massive no entry sign nor the rumble strips she was driving on, i was there as my friend spoke to her (very nicely) and she just seemed quite affronted at it all being pointed out to her, she was just like ‘oh but i want to go down here you see’

Being old and doddery doesn’t mean you can get in yr car and do what you like. Those poor women being hit and dragged along like that, how terrifying. And the one who has been left incontinent and with ptsd. She can’t go out, her freedom’s gone forever. Old people are as capable as anyone else of being stubborn dickish cunts behind the wheel.

Just because he was 87 doesn't excuse his behaviour. He is not going to end up in a high security prison or the Tower of London. And he won't even be there for 27 months probably.

Would you also argue someone who had been drink driving shouldn't be locked up? Someone who hit someone whilst having an argument with their wife? Someone who caused an accident whilst using their phone? Or someone who had already had a few "funny turns" but hadn't gone to the doctor to get it investigated yet (maybe worried that it could be something that caused them to lose their license)?

Sentences are to act as a deterrent as well as a punishment.

If this man had killed your child I doubt you would feel the same.

The judge said he has just previously hit a bollard with the front if his car. He reversed for 15 metres, narrowly missing a father and children, carried on reversing out of control reaching 19 miles an hour. Reversing at 19 mikes an hour!!!

He took no corrective action to stop this error, clearly he shouldn’t have been driving. It is no accident to carry on driving whilst unfit to drive. Arrogance and neglect caused this accident.

What message would it send out not to punish him, that it is ok to continue driving whilst incapable and not to worry if you kill someone in the process.

Rather sickened by the YABU voters

I’m more sickened by people like you who think he should have got off with it just because he’s old.

I would like to see far more effective prosecutions for these types of crime. Far too many are killing and maiming people with minimal consequences.

The first accident was “a momentary lapse in concentration”. Getting back in the car before he had recovered and was by his own admission “raging” was dangerous.

Not admitting his guilt or apologising aggravated the offence.

The judge was warned at the time by the man's doctors that this was highly likely to lead to his death

Not quite. According to the report, his lawyer said that he was "at a stage in his life when even a minor fall could kill him" and that there was a GP letter saying that "incarceration in a new environment could result in hospital admission for a life threatening illness". But he could have minor falls anywhere, and many people at this age have to move into new environments in the shape of hospitals or care homes. The other side of the coin is that he would almost certainly have gone straight into the prison hospital and had doctors and nurses on hand. He was no more likely to die inside prison than out.

A quick google tells me you are wrong @CareofPunts

Plenty of young drivers do it.

I genuinely question the public interest in imprisoning first time offenders, ( of any age), for a momentary lapse in concentration
Would you write this if your child was run over at a crossing by an 18yo bad boy who had just passed their driving test, because they had a momentary lapse in concentration, looking in their mirror when they heard a noise behind them?

The latter would actually be more forgiving, but I bet he would get 100% YABU here if the same post was written about him.

The case is sad, but agism is agism.

Just because he was 87 doesn't excuse his behaviour. He is not going to end up in a high security prison or the Tower of London. And he won't even be there for 27 months probably

Well, no. He's dead.

Sent Millburn he was in Wormwood Scrubs, that is a high security prison and no, he won't be there the whole 27 months, as , ( just like the judge was warned), he died nine days in.

But you know he was punished, so Mumsnet will be happy.

And it's not about his age; I feel it's really tragic when drivers of any age who have had a tragic accident, ( I'm not talking downing a bottle of vodka and joyriding)are imprisoned. Doesn't bring the deceased back but ensures more lives are ruined in the process.

I agree with you, OP. If you view the purpose of prison aa for rehabilitation, rather than punishment, it makes no sense to lock people up for genuine accidents. Yes, it was wrong, but it was a mistake, no prison sentence will change the outcome and you're only increasing the likelihood they'll offend in future by locking accidental offenders away.

This was despite having had mini strokes and blackouts. I always told him that if he continued to drive and killed someone, I would find it incredibly hard to forgive, much as I loved him

Did you report him to DVLA?

Getting behind the wheel when you know you are not fit to drive is endangering others’ lives. This man let his wife drive to the supermarket, then took over to park, which he proved entirely incapable of doing. He expressed no remorse. It’s a sad case, but a message needs to go out to older drivers that their convenience does not have priority over others’ safety. It must be horrible to get old and lose the ability to drive, but there are too many cases of elderly drivers killing people.

Don'tdisturbmenow....as repeatedly stated, the man in your , (presumably fictitious), example would also not deserve to go to prison and I would think sending him to, would be a disgrace.