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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is unreasonable and this judge knowingly scentenced this man to death

866 replies

Sootyandsweep2019 · 29/12/2019 10:07

Just read a heartbreaking story in the paper about an 87 year old man, who given a 27 month prison sentence after he killed someone in a car accident. The judge was warned at the time by the man's doctors that this was highly likely to lead to his death; but went ahead and did it anyway. As predicted, he died nine days later. This was not murder, this was not malicious; it was a complete, tragic accident.

By all means ban him from driving if he was a danger, look at tightening the driving regulations around older drivers.

But our obsession with "making people pay," for genuine accidents has led to this utter tragedy .

The poor man must have been terrified. I really think this particular judge/ case needs urgent investigation; and we need a wider look at whether prison is always an appropriate response to car accident s like this.

Sadly I don't expect the judge/ CPS/ solicitors etc. Feel guilty at all.

OP posts:
BornInAThunderstorm · 29/12/2019 11:00

My pity is for the women who were dragged for 100 feet by a man who shouldn’t have been driving in the first place.

Biancadelrioisback · 29/12/2019 11:00

OP, I'm curious, how do you feel about him knowing he took a life and changed (at least) one forever and never showed any remorse or apologised to the victims/families? Still think he's a sweet, innocent elderly man?

Original poster
Sootyandsweep2019 · 29/12/2019 11:00

Ofgs, with Anne soccales; it was a terrible accident and I have genuine and sincere sympathy with the victim's family. I do not believe that many of the people posting here would voluntarily return from the U.S in her position; and so it's hypocritical to ask her to do so.

Anyway, I highly, highly doubt after this case the U.S will be sending her here.

OP posts:
misspiggy19 · 29/12/2019 11:01

YABU- he was remorseless and killed someone.

Just because he was 87 years old should have no bearing. Do we stop sending people to jail when they reach a certain age then?????

BoxedWine · 29/12/2019 11:02

The US were never going to extradite that silly bitch anyway.

Original poster
Sootyandsweep2019 · 29/12/2019 11:02

No simonjt I would never murder anybody with my car, ( or anything else). If someone "murdered," a member of my family with their car, ( you know, deliberately drove into them), then of course I would want them charged with murder. But we're not talking about murder here, are we ? So muder is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

OP posts:
CareOfPunts · 29/12/2019 11:03

with Anne soccales; it was a terrible accident

No it wasn’t. She was driving on the wrong side of the road. Yes it’s easily done when you’re on autoipikot and used to driving on the other side of the road and no she didn’t mean to kill him. But she was still responsible and should face the consequences.

Don’t you think driving offences should be a thing OP?

SimonJT · 29/12/2019 11:05

How is intentionally driving on the wrong side of the road for at least 400 metres an accident?

I have driven in the UK, mainland Europe, north america and Japan. I haven’t accidentally driven on the wrong side of the road, you can’t accidentally turn your steering wheel, then accelerate and continue ‘accidentally’ driving on the wrong side of the road.

She has previously been charged for driving offences, so it was clear she was unsafe to drive.

puds11 · 29/12/2019 11:05

Nah OP you’re well off. Yes it’s sad, but it’s also sad that a woman was mowed down in Sainsbury’s car park. She was robbed of her life. He was in the wrong and rightfully charged. Ffs if we let people off because they’re old should we let people off because they are cute? The justice system is there for a reason. He may well have died then irrespective of the accident.

SarahTancredi · 29/12/2019 11:06

sooty

Dont you think you are being led by the media a bit here.

If he was a 27 year old woman theyd be some bikini clad snap chat filtered picture and youd think she deserved more than she got. But old men get the benefit of forlorn frail walking frame pictures so every one feels sorry for them. Harvey Weinstein tried that one too.

SimonJT · 29/12/2019 11:06

@Sootyandsweep2019 So if I accidentally forgot to take my foot of the accelerator and ran over and killed a member of your family you wouldn’t mind if I wasn’t punished?

ivykaty44 · 29/12/2019 11:06

If this driver was that frail, why was he allowed to be driving a car?

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 29/12/2019 11:06

how would you feel if this was your elderly parents/ grandparent

Utterly ashamed that their dangerous driving killed someone.

TacoLover · 29/12/2019 11:08

Why do you keep referring to it as an accident??? It was a result of dangerous driving, it was obviously his fault. Stop trying to absolve him of blame

MrsEvedder · 29/12/2019 11:09

Sadly as a family we have first hand experience of the difference between dangerous driving and careless driving after having to sit through 2 trials. A momentary lapse in concentration is not dangerous driving, if it was thought that is what had happened then he would have been charged with death by careless driving.
It is difficult to prove dangerous driving so the fact that the police, cps, jury and judge agree that it was speaks volumes.
He drove dangerously and killed someone and must be punished.

LuckyShoe · 29/12/2019 11:10

OP what feelings do you have for the family of the dead woman and her friend- who took the brunt of the impact but miraculously survived with life changing injuries?

That’s where my sympathies lie. I felt the same as you when I read the headline. When I read the story I changed my mind. I also had sympathy for Sacoolas until she left the country.

MrsFrostyTheSnowman · 29/12/2019 11:11

He was a danger to the public and killed someone, whether he was 27 or 87 the crime remains the same
If he was an 87 year old rapist would you feel the same?
My grandad was knocked over in a bit and run and subsequently died, should I feel ok if the person who did it was 87 rather than the 25 year old that did it?

ivykaty44 · 29/12/2019 11:11

Older drivers are so funny that they make tv programs out of how scary their driving is...🙄

BoxedWine · 29/12/2019 11:11

But we're not talking about murder here, are we ? So muder is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

We aren't talking about a tragic accident here either, but you had no problem inserting that into the discussion. Murder is no more or less relevant than tragic accidents, in that neither of them are what happened here.

And if you wouldn't be massively ashamed of your elderly relative for being this much of an arsehole, you need a new moral compass.

Biancadelrioisback · 29/12/2019 11:11

I bet you're the kind of person who thinks old people are "cute"

TidyDancer · 29/12/2019 11:12

He got into the car angry just moments after another incident. He killed a woman and left another with life changing injuries, wrecking two families lives in the process. He didn't apologise for his actions, he lied to police and in court, he put the families through a trial.

Yes he deserved prison and my sympathy is solely with the victims and not the man who caused death by dangerous driving.

pointythings · 29/12/2019 11:12

how would you feel if this was your elderly parents/ grandparent

Well, in my case it was my elderly mum. She didn't get the chance to kill anyone because my Dsis and I moved Heaven and earth to get her license taken away and her car impounded, because we knew she was unfit to drive and was driving drunk. She was obstinate and unreasonable and in no way would have given up driving of her own accord.

And if she had killed someone in her neighbourhood, we would absolutely have felt horrified and responsible, even though we were doing everything possible to stop her driving. It took time - and in that time anything could have happened. We were lucky nothing did. If it had and she had been jailed that would have been justice.

PlanDeRaccordement · 29/12/2019 11:13

YABU
This elderly man was not fit to drive and I believe he knew he was not fit to drive. He killed a woman in a fit of anger in a car park. Of course he should get a sentence. I’m only sad he died nine days later so essentially got off scott free. He should do lived long enough to serve his time in prison.
It’s not society’s responsibility to prevent unfit drivers, it’s the responsibility of everyone with a license to self regulate. It’s not just the elderly, but others with medical conditions. I was advised i might have to give up driving when my doctor put me on new high dose medication. At fist I thought I’d be ok, but then realised I began having slowed reactions and hearing more horns beeping. So I quickly gave up my drivers license five years ago and have not driven since...as a middle aged woman with children. It’s not been convenient or easy but I was not going to risk killing anyone because I was not fit to drive but refused to stop.
I have no sympathy for this man. It was a tragedy that he caused. It was not an accident.

ivykaty44 · 29/12/2019 11:14

Taco it was a crash, but the media rarely use this term and it’s an accident, or a man collided with a car, or a bus stop collided with a car. It’s rarely/never a person/driver crashed a car

Language is important because if you keep hearing car, accident it takes away responsibility from the operators mistakes

puds11 · 29/12/2019 11:14

Well done @pointythings that must have been difficult