to imagine recklessly that a 'self-catering' holiday will be anything other than forced labour for me now I am a Mum?

[Verso]

You can all pat me on the head now and say 'there, there', with the voice of experience.

Forgive me - DD is only two, so it's still a shock to find that the concept of 'holiday' now applies to her and DH only. When did the rules change? No one showed me the paperwork!

I will learn, no doubt!

Ooh, but I was (am?) bitter . Can anyone empathise?

Blueshoes, we went to France with the children this summer and it was very enjoyable - I think it gets better when you don't have to take buggy/travel cot/changing stuff/special food etc. We just took a couple of sets of small cutlery and some pullups for night times and that was our sole concession - a world away from the years of packing the kitchen sink!

Honestly - it gets better and you are quite close to it getting better!

I lost a friend, and I don't have many, by bringing our families together on holiday-it only came out a year or so later, that her dh just cannot bear my dh, at all. It's a personality thing.

She shouldn't have told me really (her dh doesn't know, but mine does), but I just felt so angry and embarrassed about it ever since (their son is our godson) that I have basically deilberately stopped making the effort to stay in touch. Everyone else (4 kids total, her parents too) had a great time, but all the while our presence was spoiling it for her dh, I guess. Now just look back on the otherwise dream holiday sadly, I'm sure we could have remained friends and her dh's childishness could have continued to be ignored, but a two week holiday was too much.

Anchovy, you are so right about the packing for under 5s. It is the real reason why we cannot fly. What with 2 buggies (one double and one single - dh can never understand why I insist on 2), nappies, suitcases galore ... and I don't even have bottles.

As it is, for our self-catering holidays in UK, imagine this dense bullet of a VW golf powering up the motorway, with stuff filling every square inch of space in the boot, in the front, at the feet of our children, between them ... I think we need a roof rack.

Thanks for the light at the end of the tunnel

It also made me take a long hard look at dh! But it wasn't his fault, I'm now sure, the other chap was very high-strung and workaholic. Others seem to like dh fine.

We had to invest in the roofrack and luggage pod one Xmas, it's usually not used now (dds aged 4 and just 7), though Xmas depends on the present count and dimensions!

We have an estate car and a roofbox. you can see why I don't like flying!

Majorstress - Sorry to hear that story. It is sad for you AND your friend. It is a shame.

I agree with those who say that self catering holidays do get better as the children get older. We have always gone onthem, since DS2 was 2. However as they have got older we find we need to entertain them more, so last year we stayed at a place in Devon. it was a farm that had 10/12 cottages,ranging from 1 x2 bedroom one up to one that slept about 12. It had on site 3 giant trampolines, a toddler play area, an older children's play area, a football pitch {not a full size one obviously) a tennis court, swimming pool, toddlers indoor play area, putting green, small cars (cozy coupe type) for toddlers, a pool table and a video libary. It was great. We always buy things like ready cooked chicken from the supermarket and have them with ready prepared salad, or eat out. My 2 love pinics though so we do that a lot at lunch time.

Oh, and I would never go away with MIL, I did once, holiday from hell, I came close to hitting her.

My own mother drives me demented on short self-catering cottage-style breaks away with her.

This is because she doesn't believe that laying fires, playing with children, cooking, cleaning or washing up is anything to do with her. She believes that DH and I should dance attendance on her.

She does believe that she is entitled to whine and grumble about the cottages in question.

We do one of these short breaks every year with her and every year I am ready to throttle her by day 2.

My father was always involved, did all the night feeds when breastfeeding stopped in the 1960s even though he had work the next day, drove us to school every day to age 18 etc etc So you tend to follow the pattern of your family which is why women who tolerate and enable sexist men (which actually makes some women feel quite good and superior so although they complain they like the idea only they can change a nappy properly or that their man is hopeless in the kitchen etc) you are probably perpetuating the pattern too.

We never tried holidays with another couple probably because I was having babies from age 22 and most people I know waited until 35 - 40+.

Picking the self catering cottage with great care helps, a bit.

We booked a great place that had shared access to a small pool and jaccussi last Whitsun. That way, even though the weather was poor, the kids could still burn off some energy with minimal input from me (I sat in the jaccussi, while they were in the pool!)

Trouble is, these places are often more expensive.

I try to have something like a pool, or play equiplent like swings as a fall back activity, if possible.

Martianbishop that sounds just the ticket, mum in jacuzzi while kids romp in pool! Bliss!

My friend in America took her son for one night in a local hotel as his summer vacation before school started for them 23 Aug (single mum, money and leave from work a problem), and invited us all to join them in the pool-we really enjoyed it! He is 6, and I think they enjoyed it very much too. We met up the next day and took all the kids to a gym we'd spotted over the road with a soft play place while we had cokes in the bar, got some funny looks as it was really meant for people doing workouts! We did all weigh ourselves and measure our fat content for a laugh-it was no laughing matter

mb - that was me this holiday. We fell really lucky as DD learnt to swim just a week before we went away, and the pool had steps in and DD could just reach the floor for the first bit of the pool. So she felt really confident and could be fine in the pool alone whilst the grown ups sipped wine in the jacuzzi or read on the sunloungers. Lovely!

saltire that place in devon sound great, would you give me a link or the name pls?

Pippi it was booked throught cottage 4 you
this is one of the cottages

this is the one we had

They can't be booked privately through the owner, you have to do it through "cottage4you" or "country-holidays.co.uk". We booked through cottage4you. You get a chance to have a virtual tour of the cottages. What to do is type in South Devon and the number of people going and they should come up in the list of cottages

they look beautiful, and sound it too.

Has anyone come across a real farm you can stay on and actually help with animals? dds would go mad.

I know there are ones where they let you weed the garden or something, no way for dds, and I have enough of that at home ta v much.

I'm thinking more, lead in animal for milking, feed fowl, that sort of thing.

Issy I hadn't really thought of the "intrusion factor" of a nanny on hol before, glad you mentioned that.

thanks very much saltire, they are gorgeous. i'll keep it in mind.

I'd love to go to a real farm... they do that in italy a lot... any one know soemthing similar here?

I have the solution! After one very grim holiday in a Gite de France gîte with a toddler we opened our first gîte (self-catering accommodation) in Normandy specifically for families with children under 5. We provide all the baby paraphernalia (including buggies), offer free babysitting and pre-arrival shopping services and also do your laundry for nothing!You can order evening meals in three nights a week when you're not enjoying the local restaurants. We now have three gites so you can come with friends or meet up with like-minded parents when you get here. The last mumsnetter who came to us has already re-booked for next year.
Are we more expensive than Gîte de France - you bet! - but worth every penny You can check out our website at www.toddlerholiday.com/ Oh and we still have availability for October half term.

Going to the beach only became fun again last year - when they were 7 and 5.
At last, I could lie on a towel and read a book while they amused themselves, occasionally stirring myself to admire a deep hole or a wonky sandcastle, then flopping back onto the towel again.
Bliss.

Pippi - I think that some of the National Trust cottages are on farms.