to imagine recklessly that a 'self-catering' holiday will be anything other than forced labour for me now I am a Mum?

[Verso]

You can all pat me on the head now and say 'there, there', with the voice of experience.

Forgive me - DD is only two, so it's still a shock to find that the concept of 'holiday' now applies to her and DH only. When did the rules change? No one showed me the paperwork!

I will learn, no doubt!

Ooh, but I was (am?) bitter . Can anyone empathise?

We much prefer self catering hotels and even more so since DD was born. Really not into hotels that much. Don't like the rigidity of it all, and think evening time in hotels with a child is a real pain.

So we have lovely rented cottages, with own pool in the summer, with a hired car and we just do our own thing.

We do eat some meals in the house - simple and quick ones with little prep: fish and salad, pasta, pizza, take away, etc. or maybe a BBQ if we have a place with one provided. We do eat out mainly though.

Only cleaning we do is maybe the odd load of washing mid week if need be - useful with a child and requires less than 5 minutes out of my (or DH's) time. Oh and we do a quick clean round at the end of the holiday to leave the place looking as it did when we arrive - takes about 30 minutes maximum.

We always chose a property with a dishwasher and a washing machine.

A lovely bit is when DD goes to bed - albeit much later than nomral usually - and Dh and I (and anyone we are holidaying with) sit, outside if summer or inside if colder, with a glass of wine or two and some nibbles, and just relax - without being stuck in a hotel room being quite so as to not wake DD.

SC holidays really can be fab. I can't imagine choosing a hotel over SC at the moment. Too tying for us.

Mark Warner style holidays are my worst nightmare! I know some people love them, sorry, but the whole idea of them are just horrid to me. I just don't get it, the whole concept.

I've been rereading this thread... £675 (ie just rent) for a week's self-catering is quite a lot of money - we went to a lovely hotel this July on a Greek island where the rooms cost 95 euros a night (for two) or 115 euros a night (for three) - hotel had a pool, rooms were cleaned and tidied every day but absolutely no food, you had to walk five minutes into the centre of the village where there were tavernas galore that catered from 7am to midnight, so total flexibility and very, very cheap... of course you have to pay flights/ferry as well though.

Hulababy - completely agree on how horrid the Mark Warner/Sunsail/Club Med thing is. Yuck.

But I love hotels... don't find them rigid at all. What do you mean by that?

I like the freedom of self-catering holidays. We did half-board when dd was 3 months and 15 months, and as much as I enjoyed being catered for, I didn't like being tied to breakfast at a certain time and having to leave the beach early in order to be showered and dressed for dinner. I much prefer going with the flow, staying on the beach until the sun goes down and eating fish and chips in a car park if the mood takes me.

Just back today from a (self-catering) holiday so no time to read all the posts properly (I hate it when people say that, oops!). We've done SC ever since we've had DCs, and I wouldn't do anything else now. I guess it depends on your definition of SC. To me, it means "loads more space than a single hotel room; you can eat what you want, when you want, where you want, without the hotel deciding for you". It does NOT mean "Mum making the same food she'd make at home while DH and DCs do FA but enjoy themselves". We always do breakfast (cereal, toast, croissants - not that difficult) ourselves. The rest are a combination of eating out and cooking quick and easy stuff as per many of the suggestions here. Ham and cheese; quick pasta dishes; BBQ etc. If eating out is too expensive, then just lay down the ground rules about who does what while you're away, and the kind of food you cook if you have to eat in. If SC really didn't work for you, then don't do it again! It's supposed to be a holiday for all of you, so am really sorry you're frazzled at the end of it (getting that way myself, tons of washing to do, weather crap and tumble drier broke down this pm!!!) Hence on MN!

Go to hotels where you don't have to have meals in - normally we go to hotels with breakfast (buffet style, lasts from 8 am to 11 am approx) when everyone gets up and helps themselves, and then we eat out in the village for the other meals.

Although we do mainly self-catering holidays, we have had a few hotel holidays too when the boys were little.

I remember the first, DS1 was about 9 months old. The holiday was great, but DS1 struggled to fall asleep if we were out and about (too nosy) so we ended up being in the hotel room quite early, and having to be quiet whilst he was sleeping with being in the same room (no balcony to relax on).

It wasn't too bad, we lay on the bed, with a drink and read, but didn't give us much chance to unwind properly iykwim - nowhere to sit, nowhere to chill drinks or keep snacks fresh, little scintillating conversation, lol.

Anna8888 - meals at set times, even if just breakfast, sharing my pool, not being able to sit outside easily with a drink if we put DD to bed (bedtime/evenings are the bit that I really hate in hotels with children), the idea of kid's clubs, anything organised for me really.

Even when just me and DH hotels were not our greatest choice, unless just for a weekend away in some nice place with a spa, etc. But not with DD.

Just not for me.

good post xenia.

Oh and now DD is older I like the bigger SC villas/cottages so DD can have her own room and not be in with us.

Hulababy - but we never go to hotels like that . We go to little, family-run hotels (5-30 rooms max) in charming locations where you definitely don't have to eat in, where you can have a drink whenever you want, walk around in your swimming clothes. And I just love not having to do any kind of domestic chore

hotels are a great option IMO because you do not have to clean etc.
however as much as I like to eat out, I could not do it for two weeks... some days you just want simple homey food and with DD, 2 as well, evening meals in restaurants were not always peaceful. also a hotel room is too a small space so for me self catering is the best option.
BUT BUT BUT you need to have (or train) a DH that does for you what you normally do for him.

My DH does EVERYTHING on holiday, washes up, laundry, gets up with DD and lives to to lie in, tidies up ... the lot! Any other way and I'd come back as upset as you and with plenty of reasons!!!

As I said Anna, each to their own, just not for me. I still prefer my own cottage with a private pool, and complete flexibility regarding everything we want and do. And I do have a DH who does as much as me, especially on holiday we share everything, although to be fair he probab;ly does more childcare as he tends to spend hours in the pool with DD compared to me.

Self-catering much much easier with a LO than catered IMO. And cheaper.

Yes Hulababy, it was the evenings that got us, whether we ate at the hotel, or went out.

Now you see whilst we love SC, we don't do private villas/cottages. We have older children so prefer shared facilities so they meet other kids and we other adults. And less remote than some cottages/villas, so we can eat out without having to drive all the time. At the end of the day, it's what works for you, Verso, and your family. There's self-catering and self-catering (e.g.Hulababy and I seem to have different preferences) . You need to work out what you liked about this last holiday, and what you didn't. Then look at what you need to do to make things better for your next holiday.

I like Club Med, Sunsail and Mark Warner but I like playing tennis all day and sailing and playing water polo and only laying on a sunbed with my book when I am absolutely shattered. MW and Sunsail can be a bit Hampstead/Surrey on Sea though and after about 3 days I do get a bit fed up with the hi de hi atmosphere and big social dinners. I would not want to do it for more than one week and I would not like it to be my main summer holiday.

def prefer self catering since birth of DS. Its a very unhealthy thing to suggest but DH and I usually treat ourselves to the odd takeaway or 3 when we go on hol. Saves thinking about cooking!
Went to hotel this year and spent every evening we ate in restaurant being paranoid about whether babylistening was working and wondering why other parents weren't looking so anxious!

We just came back from one of those holidays. We found with 3 teenagers and younger children they just seemed to a good compromise. Obviously if one were single or just a couple that would not be a holiday of choice but you have to think about what teenagers like which is probably not miles from other children in a cottage or looking at castles. They want to learn about drinking and flirting and meeting other teenagers and like something active they can do all day. It's like skiing holidays - work very well for a lot of families because you aren't all together all day. Different of course with a baby which just does as you tell it though... different stages need different holidays. But I suppose my point is when children are older I don't think a holiday that just suits the parents is always right and in fact is quite selfish. Your life has very much changed with children and what keeps them happy on holiday often keeps you happy and if you get 6 hours free child care a day to be with your other half that's a huge bonus in my book and still leaves huge numbers of other hours for family time.

On th emore important domestic equality issue - first you look at the man, check he's lived at home, run a house (I remember my ex showing me his system of washing shirts etc in his house which was reasonably tidy), then you discuss domestic arrangments and childcare and work before you get married to root out any sexism and then you never do what he should do and you never treat him as child. He might put a nappy on differently or even wrongly - so what - you aren't God's gift to parenthood - believe it or not different ways with children can be better than your way. it's the lack of tolerance of different ways which ends up binding women in effect in domestic chains because they want to get that superiority that only they are okay with the children.

Also I went back to work full time when the children were small and earned more than him so education and good careers for girls are also key to this.

Self-catering much easier with a family than hotels, much more flexible, loads more space and much much cheaper.

I don't understand about the chores, you really don't generate that much work on holiday. Our holiday home is a base for sleeping in, some meals and a small amount of relaxation time. So the only real work generated is some simple cooking (shared) and the resulting washing-up and wiping-down of kitchen surfaces (shared by all, including the children). Nothing else, except for the last-minute tidy-up before leaving - again shared, one adult plus one of the children packs the car, the other adult and remaining children have a half-hour whizz round and clean and tidy.

I just love the freedom of self-catering. Space for everyone, including a room of her own for my teenage daughter and one or even two rooms for the two boys. Freedom, space and the right equipment and facilities to make whatever drinks and snacks and packed lunches we might want, whenever we want them. No worries about when we eat any meal - if we want to get up at 7 a.m. and go for a full day out somewhere, we can do that without being tied to any breakfast time. Freedom to decide whether we're eating in or out, not having to eat out because there's no other option. A more comfortable environment, and more space, for relaxing in between activities or at the end of the day. Not having to be around lots of other people.

And the cost. Self-catering wins hands down every time. For a family of 5 we can rent a 3-4 bedroom cottage or similar for much less than we would pay to be cramped in a 'family room' or even two rooms in a cheap B&B.

Well, I've got one teenager and one very nearly teenager and they still enjoy family holidays. They have active social lives and spend a large part of the summer holidays meeting up with friends, but they still enjoy the fact that our holiday away is just us. We don't socialise with anyone else on holiday, it's pure family time. I don't think it's selfish at all, every member of the family has input into what we do on holiday. Some activities/excursions are chosen with them in mind, some are very much our choice and others are for the whole family. A bit of give and take, just like in other areas of life.

The thought of 'six hours free childcare' every day just makes me cringe.

We went SC to a lovely villa last year for two weeks. It was hard to keep DD entertained to be honest for all that time.
On the plus side there was a washing machine and dishwasher and BBQ, and DH and my dad did most of the cooking (salad, pasta and BBQ most evenings)

This year, as DD is 5 and a social creature and we now have DS, 3 months, there was no way I was doing any cooking or cleaning! So we did 'Butlins in the sun' - A First Choice aparthotel in Mallorca.
Half board and all inclusive drinks, with a studio apartment.
We didn't use the cooking facilities, just the fridge.
There was a kids club which DD loved.
There were 4 pools.
She met children and loved playing with them all day.
There was a mini disco and caberet shows at night which DD loved.
She had a siesta during the day and stayed up until 11pm.

A completely different experience to SC, but DD enjoyed it far more than spending all day long in the pool with adults, watching DVD's in the evening and playing cards with grandad.

There comes a stage (about age 5/6) when kids need the company of other kids on holiday - if you can do this with a gang of friends SC, that is great, but for us, although a few years ago, this Butlins style holiday would have been a nightmare, DD was in 7th heaven.

hercules - if your post was responding to my anecdote about having to state my swimming terms very bluntly - it didn't at all mean dh wasn't going to look after the children (and/or I wasn't going to get my swim): it just meant, exactly as policywonk neatly said, that dh wouldn't, on his own, have clocked how much more I was doing. And so needed it pointed out.

I am sure there are blokes out there who have no need whatsoever of its being pointed out - a friend of ours once (with a new baby) said to me happily "Of course, it depends on you both having an innate sense of fairness." Some people have that; I would imagine that, hmm, possibly even more may not.

I am sure Xenia isn't being simplistic when she says that women in that sort of imbalance are enablers - and that she knows just how very difficult it can be to sort things with someone who doesn't have that fairness instinct. But in most cases something can be done - but what & how, exactly, depends on the exact chemical mix of personalities. That was sort of why I was asking Verso to try to pinpoint what was the biggest problem.

Oh, and to move things on to the natural next topic in this sequence - my big effort to change this particular problem is to make sure that my son is fully aware of how the house is run & how much everyone does in it - so that he develops that proportional sense of when he's contributing & when he's not.