AIBU that socialists should just implement their ideas outside of government?

[pinksauce]

Just that really – there are millions of people who voted Labour; but also millions who didn’t and don’t want anything to do with their policies. Why do socialists desire to impose their views?

Instead, why don’t all the millions who vote Labour get together and create a pooling of resources independent of the state? Each person who lines up with this philosophy could pay a high percentage of their wealth into a central fund and build hospitals, schools and subsidise higher wages without being in government..

Nothing is stopping people pooling their resources and paying for each other, offering enhanced benefits to their members, taking on debts for each other, transferring income as deemed appropriate – but they don’t seem to do it voluntarily, despite indicating they want to live in such a society. If it worked well, it may even attract more people.

Or, do people who believe in socialist ideals only want to do it if they can impose their will on those who don’t wish to be part of such a scheme?

Isn’t this why we have charities and food banks etc? It’s just a sticking plaster on an unequal society that the government has created. A government that we pay our taxes into expecting the same level of respect for all human beings (from a socialist perspective).

I guess socialists just like spending other people's money.

Interesting idea. I’d like to extend it to Brexiters ... why don’t only the Brexiters lose their EU citizenship and only Brexiters’ businesses lose single market access? I’d be more than happy to pay an extra tax to retain my EU citizenship.

Nothing stopping to EU offering such a scheme of course, so it's down to people who wish to pay for non-state access to ask them to do so - but that's probably another thread.

Over years different groups have tried to do that but it is usually interrupted by the state in some way.

Jewish communities have their own ambulance and police service which they mostly find but they do have to abide by regulations set by the state and respond to calls from people outside the community.

It would take secure long term funding to build hospitals and schools. Individuals outside of a regulated system simply do not have that financial security and those who do seem desperate to cling on to it so support political parties that help them do that.

let's also take a look at 'animal farm' that worked out well didn't it ?

I went out for dinner recently with a person that lives in the PMs constituency and thinks that he and his policies are just fab! Despite the fact that I drank no alcohol at all and she knocked back several champagne cocktails, when the bill came she worked it out as equal shares. The right wing are perfectly happy to indulge themselves in socialist ethos when it suits them. Stop using NHS, roads/ambulance/police/council services THEN come and tell the socialists to pool their resources. Hypocrite.

but they don’t seem to do it voluntarily

Do you want a list of the things me and mine do? Because I can do that.

Similarly those who have lost their jobs due to Brexit in areas where they bloody voted for it are complaining about being made redundant.

What do you think trade unions and credit unions do? Not to mention charities and volunteer organisations?

Wow this is David Cameron's big society in action. Does that mean you wouldn't be wanting to opt in to reap the benefits of such an approach? This is the kind of thing a decent and humanitarian government provides instead of relying on the goodwill of some

I can't make head nor tail of that, other than you are proposing that one pays taxes to the government and then pays again.

Anyway vast number of socialists are already doing their stuff, food banks and all the other sweeping up stuff that there is a need for.

I voted YABU on the basis there are thousands of examples of this.... might be worth exploring the origins of oh let’s say most nhs hospitals, building societies, mutual funds etc before spouting nonsense... 🤷‍♀️

They do.

@CactusAndCacti

Well you pay taxes for the current base, and pay a voluntary insurance scheme to Labour society to provide additional over the top benefits. If you think people should pool more, not sure why its needs to all be in government - just do it anyway; with millions of people, it will just be the same.

Those who are not members, clearly don't get the benefits. They may choose that it isn't worth it, or not a philosophy they believe in.

I work in social business/social enterprise, we do exactly this. All of the profit from the sale of goods and services is reinvested into community projects/charity/good causes and also better pay/conditions/training for the employees.

My grandad worked in a biscuit factory in the 1930s and 40s and lived in a working class area of our town. Every week he contributed to some kind of pitiful church fund which would be the ONLY financial support if he were ill or injured. Then the ‘socialists’ introduced the NHS after the war and the stress, worry and uncertainty of becoming ill was gone. Similarly, as much as I applaud the work of foodbanks ... it shouldn’t be up to charities to ensure the citizens of a country don’t starve ... especially in one the richest countries in the world. Big society is a cop out

I earn less than £1k a month, as do the majority of my colleagues. I set up a foodbank fund and each month we donate what we can and I take it to the supermarket, do a food shop, then donate to our local foodbank.

I have a tiny knitting side business and every time I get an order, I knit the equivalent to donate to the refugee camps in Calais.

My friends and I are going to organise other things in the new year, but none of us are wealthy, so it only goes so far.

I can’t decide how serious you are.

The obvious flaw is that the majority (not all but most) of the ‘socialist labour voters’ were those who stood to gain from the system, not fund it. The majority (not all but most) middle/high earners voted elsewhere and don’t share the socialist ideals.

So essentially what you’re saying is, why can’t the poor just club together and fund each other...and all the improvements/facilities they want? 😂🎄

Socialism, not unlike communism, is almost always the priority of the poor who stand to benefit. Which is why it only works if it can be inflicted onto everybody else.

@pinksauce
what a great idea!
I think Labour supporters should follow suit and get all those amazing promises delivered without getting me into their debts

So what are you saying, that we should all move to some part of the country together to enjoy our universal services and caring society? How exactly? We want everyone to care about one another a bit more, as it needs everyone to make that work.

Although having said that - what you are suggesting is why I want Scottish independence- we have more co-located people here who are interested in making life better for everyone and not just ourselves.

I have just spent 4 hours delivering food for a food bank. Some wonderful supermarkets have donated lots and lots of stuff.

So it is happening.
Lots of socialists give time also even if they aren't cash rich. There were lots volunteering tonight Xmas eve out until 8.30pm at the food bank.

I'm thinking the OP is onto something here. If we get it set up and pool all the resources we'd need some sort of central committee to oversee it . Obviously they would incur expenses and need somewhere comfy to work from and a fairly large bureaucracy to sort it all out. And some lawyers. Dont forget, there's no-one can talk as much as a socialist commitee. Can I volunteer to be more equal than you lot?

I suppose a lot of us couldn't afford to top up what with being in low paid/ insecure/ zero hours contract jobs.