What are the main identifiers of those who describe themselves as lower middle classes?

[Rosehip10]

As distinct from middle/upper middle.

If I go camping in France, but don't mind watching ITV occasionally on my reasonably sized TV whilst drinking a decent French Red wine and go sailing, enjoy watching Rugby union and listen to Radio 4 6.30 comedy programmes and Radio 4 Today...

What does that make me?

"I've learned from "MN" that saying "what" is upper class and saying "pardon" is lower middle."...you know mumsnet isn't real life dont you?
What is definitely not acceptable in upper class circles. It's a more lower class thing. In my opinion.

I'm equall horrified and fascinated by the obsession with class in this country! (I'm from here BTW) no idea though in response to your question.

Teaching is a difficult one to place in the class system. All teachers must have a degree now, so one would expect them to be mc. In the past a teacher has not been considered one of the professions (law, medicine etc), and therefore not A or B. Going further back a 'teacher' might be uc/umc spinster daughter leading the village school, invalided man (from war, from pit accident etc) that supervised the village children learning letters and catechism/religious texts, vicars wife leading village school, mc man employed in a public school after university etc etc.

Teaching isnt, and never was, an homogeneous body.

It is very clear to me at Parents' Evening which of my children's teachers are from working class families and which are from middle class families, and it makes not a jot of difference. The teacher DS had last year is the best he's ever had, umc background. The one he has this year is 2nd best (though DS's favourite!), and wc background. They've had terrible teachers from different backgrounds too.

Like many social constructs it isn't really a thing at all but generally a term used by people as a form of derision -
So it is someone overly concerned about what others think about them, keen to keep up with the Joneses or rather position themselves as superior to the Joneses. Someone who would see deviation from the norm in society as being hugely embarrassing.

My MIL who became a nurse to marry a doctor and who finds the concept of people with mental illness distasteful is a good example. She married her doctor and is ok off but still retains some sort of underlying fear that her lowly origins will be revealed and shame her.

@TabbyMumz what is correct, I can assure you the Queen does not say pardon in that context. She’s not French fgs.

Actually, quite the worst teacher DD has had was from an uc background (but uc in another country, not UK, so technically outside our class system, but definitely uc by our definition of UC=landed gentry).

@TabbyMumz, Not at all, "what" is a upper class thing - the queen would never say "pardon" for example.

No, they're not just down to money. Education comes into it as well.

Ok, call it resources rather than money then. A good quality education can be provided by the state.

There used to be huge armies of clerks working in offices, department stores and banks - intelligent, literate people who didn’t have the means to go to university when it was for the privileged few. They did all the stuff we do with computers now. Low paid compared to professionals but be-suited white collar workers who may well have come from traditional working-class homes. I think they were the foundation of what was seen as the lower middle classes.

Why have you put a vote button on this question?

YABU to waste time thinking about this stuff, who really cares?

Isn't it about time that we stopped obsessing about words like working/middle class, especially the sub-sub-sub divisions? They smack of the 30s, my parents would have described themselves as wc, council house, semi-skilled employment, Labour voting. Their values and opinions though would have made them sound mc, I once told my mother that she had more in common with Mts T and she went mad at me, but it was quite true.

@jellyfrizz Yes of course, but start to break down the backgrounds of children in "good" schools (especially in secondary education) and you will see more middle class children and less free school meals for example - this is especially pronounced in grammar (11+) counties.

I was a teacher. I qualified in 1983 and it was very much a profession then. It was also regarded as a "women's" profession as it was regarded as one of the few jobs which educated women from my background (wc/ lmc) could consider a career.

the queen would never say "pardon" for example.

How do you know what the queen would say? Tempted to imagine she swears like a trooper myself but I don’t know her.

@TonTonMacoute As I simply forgot to remove the vote as many threads on AIBU do.

As many have posted interesting thoughts on this thread then some people are interested in the topic, if you aren't then why post?

"YABU to waste time thinking about this stuff, who really cares?"

Everyone should care about inequality in this country.

"It was also regarded as a "women's" profession as it was regarded as one of the few jobs which educated women from my background (wc/ lmc) could consider a career."

I suppose nursing was the other big one, but nursing didn't have the status it does now. I think it was considered an associate profession rather than a profession.

"A good quality education can be provided by the state."

The children of educated parents will always have an advantage though and there are many inequalities in our education system.

We have to consider WHO wants us to think that class doesn't matter.

Me, me, me. I’m not British and find the oneupmanship over ‘what’ vs ‘pardon’ etc and all the sneering very annoying.

Yes of course, but start to break down the backgrounds of children in "good" schools (especially in secondary education) and you will see more middle class children and less free school meals for example - this is especially pronounced in grammar (11+) counties.

I"m not sure what point you are making here. Surely the answer is to make sure that everyone has access to a 'good' school by putting resources where they are needed.

Everyone should care about inequality in this country.

The class system perpetrates inequality.

"Me, me, me. I’m not British and find the oneupmanship over ‘what’ vs ‘pardon’ etc and all the sneering very annoying."

You're totally missing the point. It's right wing politicians who want us to think that class no longer matters so that we won't fight for equality. It's not about what and pardon, it's about a person's life chances.

Who are these mysterious "Middle" Middle classes then? I can't quite get my head around them. Agree with PP that they def must exist, what jobs do they do?

It is very clear to me at Parents' Evening which of my children's teachers are from working class families and which are from middle class families, and it makes not a jot of difference

How? Genuine question? You're there to discuss your DCs progress at school, not what the teachers parents did?

Surely all you can tell is what their class is according to your own perceptions, prejudices and assumptions rather than an in depth, objective assessment of the teachers' circumstances?

You might be strongly linking it to accent, but there will be middle class people with regional accents and working class people with 'posh' accents, so on it's own, that's not a reliable indicator either.

In a lot of cases, there's so much overlap these days, that many people are not definitely any particular class.