What are the main identifiers of those who describe themselves as lower middle classes?

[Rosehip10]

As distinct from middle/upper middle.

I thought it was based on where you were born / your upbringing as a child?

it is where you bought your Christmas food from!

This ^

@MitziK, that sounds solidly middle-class.

I agree, @Gwenhwyfar. Social class still determines huge amounts about people’s lives in this country. Claiming it doesn’t exist or isn’t important is as counter-productive as airily saying ‘Oh, I simply don’t see race!’

I find this whole Class thing really confusing. My grandparents didn't go to university but all ran successful business and owned properties. My parents both uni educated and were teachers. My partner and I have no less than 6 degrees between usv ( one undergraduate, two post-grad each) however we both work public sector don't earn huge amounts and have frequently lost our jobs at the whim of whatever fascist government is in power and decides to cut our jobs next. We live in a fairly shabby 3 bed semi and don't have much spare at end of month. I would say we were lower middle class maybe?

Upper middle class - highly paid professional/senior manager

Lower middle - professional/graduate job but not highly paid e.g. primary teacher, social worker, librarian or intermediate white collar job not quite professional level e.g. clerical

upper working class - skilled trade requiring vocational rather than academic qualifications

lower working class - unskilled work

Income is different. Lots of upper working class people will earn more than lower middle class.

@Gwenhwyfar There is more of a split in middle class than upper/lower - definitely a middle middle

"I agree, @Gwenhwyfar. Social class still determines huge amounts about people’s lives in this country. Claiming it doesn’t exist or isn’t important is as counter-productive as airily saying ‘Oh, I simply don’t see race!’"

Thanks Feigning. I'm finding it hard to believe people can think it doesn't matter any more. There was a good programme on the BBC recently showing the effect it has on young people looking for work.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-49157233

I also remember threads on here where people have posted things like 'It's obvious that a degree in x,y,z is worthless'. Well, no, wasn't obvious to me because of my lower middle class background!

We have to consider WHO wants us to think that class doesn't matter.

"@Gwenhwyfar There is more of a split in middle class than upper/lower - definitely a middle middle"

Yes, but I didn't know how to describe it other than being in between upper middle and lower middle.

I used to enjoy these threads, but it’s Christmas Eve and there are homeless people and those worrying about how they’ll feed their children over the next few days! How about a lack of preoccupation with oneself and a duty to go good in the world?
Sorry to be ranty, but seriously! Open your eyes and look around you! If you’re aspirational at all, you’re probably somewhere in the middle class bracket, but truthfully it shouldn’t matter to the extent that it does. It just seems very shallow at Christmas when there is so much unmet need in society 🙁.

Class determines people's life chances so it's wrong (imo) to say it doesn't matter.

It's the access to resources that determines life choices, not class.

I think we probably are, though would say he is more middle class than me (went to private school, wears a battered old Barbour). Both university educated, but both first generation to go to university. We both grew up in detached houses in leafy suburbs but my dad was a shopkeeper/market trader whereas his had a slightly more professional job. His family shop in John Lewis as standard whereas I still think it’s too posh/expensive for me. We live in a 2 bed terrace, I’m a teacher and he has quite a low level IT job (capable of more but never really had the drive - another story!) We have a few holidays a year, sometimes package sometimes arranged independently to include visiting friends and relations abroad, sometimes a cottage by the sea with the dog. Read a lot, go to the theatre fairly frequently, occasionally listen to classical music but at the same time watch trashy tv and enjoy a Wetherspoons breakfast. I say loo/toilet and sofa/settee fairly interchangeably. DH has a deep and abiding love of Lidl, but also use Sainsbury’s and I try to use local independent shops such as greengrocers, fishmongers etc as much as possible or the local food market because it reminds me of my dad.

Who knows what we are, don’t care really as long as we’ve a roof over our head and food in the fridge. It’s just interesting to ponder the different indicators/definitions.

"I thought it was based on where you were born / your upbringing as a child?"

Some people go on their upbringing yes, but I don't buy that really. A highly paid senior manager saying they're working class is something I find a bit insulting. I'd go on the person's level of education and/or job, although background comes into it of course.

Princess Diana was a cleaner at one point and I would still have considered her upper class rather than lower working class!

@jellyfrizz and such access is usually determined by social class.

"It's the access to resources that determines life choices, not class."

How is access to resources not part of class? Assuming by resources you're talking about things like social and human capital and not just money.

It's people who say class doesn't exist that want to keep people down. It's to make them think that if they're not successful it's their own fault rather than being down to structural issues.

That's arseways though. The structural issues are to do with money, not how people describe where they pee.

Cross-posted Rosehip.

Mumsnetters are so funny, so obsessed with class but they don't realise talking about it in such a way puts them firmly in the lower category

You should have said "we" and and "us", not "they" and "them", your post means you're in the same category as the people you're talking about!

@Gwenhwyfar Family background/childhood is certainly as important in "class" as current salary/income/job - look at the historical (still for some!) disdain for "new money" and the classic Daily Mail type stories of a "chav" type wins the lottery and would never been seen as middle class.

Class is all bollocks until you get to the elite.

We are working class with a middle class life 🤷

@bigbubbles Miffy is a reference to Milk In First. I’ve always wondered if it’s a play on the word iffy too.

qmhistoryoftea.wordpress.com/2017/05/11/milk-in-first-a-miffy-question/

Miffy the rabbit is just a cute, coincidental shorthand.

I had a very Hyacinth Bouquet colleague who plagued the whole office with her judgemental mithering. When it got too much we used to email one another pictures of Miffy undertaking various activities.

It cut the tension as it just wasn’t worth standing up to her/calling her on her shit. The dramatics were off the scale. And she could try pretty nasty/underhand is openly challenged. She got a Miffy mug one secret Santa and was none the wiser.

The only people immune to the class system in England are artists.

It’s all about the size of your telly.

I would identify as working class because I grew up on a council estate with a single mum on benefits. Other people would say my grammar school education and professional job make me LMC. I don’t overly concern myself with it though.

@BillHadersNewWife Really?

www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/nov/23/middle-class-people-dominate-arts-survey-finds

I like to dabble between classes.