Happy Impeachment! Next step is removal. (Trump thread 98)

[TheClaws]

In the last thread, Trump was impeached by Congress. Now the question is when the articles will be sent to the Senate for Trial, as - at this stage - there is no guarantee from Mitch McConnell of a fair trial. Trump clings to his belief that his call to Zelensky was “perfect”.

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3732056-Trump-and-the-Giant-Impeachment-Trump-thread-97

Blinding? Persecuting is what I think I meant!

He is the president of a nation for many of whom Billy the Kid seems to be some sort of national hero, and people who think that also being of the opinion that (according to his own evaluation) Trump is a poor little persecuted fellah that everyone has it in for, and who has done nothing wrong, isn't entirely surprising.

The economy is great if you're wealthy or secure middle class. Not so great if you’re poor or out of work. Living wage jobs are scarce as hen’s teeth for those who are blue collar workers.

Most of those ‘great numbers’ are for investment returns and property values. Not something the less fortunate really have to worry about.

It’s going to take. Long time to recover from the devastation he’s brought to the poor and those barely making it.

He is the president of a nation for many of whom Billy the Kid seems to be some sort of national hero, and people who think that also being of the opinion that (according to his own evaluation) Trump is a poor little persecuted fellah that everyone has it in for, and who has done nothing wrong, isn't entirely surprising

I don’t quite understand the Billy the Kid reference in terms of how it relates to Trump but this sounds like a put-down of normal American people who decided to vote for Trump, of whom there were millions.

I’m not saying that Trump has done nothing wrong. But this is exactly the same condescending attitude from certain parts of society that we have just been through for 3 years over Brexit. Effectively it is saying that ordinary voters are stupid, they’re incapable of making sensible decisions for themselves, “we” know better because “they” don’t really understand what’s at stake. It is the Democrats’ attitude too, and, as we’ve seen from Brexit, if you tell people they’re stupid racists who don’t understand the issues long enough, eventually they’ll tell you to fuck off.

It’s not that they think he’s a “poor persecuted little fellah”, It’s that - if you are NOT simply blinded with hatred for Trump - the last 3 years look like a long partisan attempt to find a way, by hook or by crook, to impeach a democratically elected President. The appearance is that they wanted to impeach from day one, and they’ve just been looking for something to hang it on. That is not good, impeachment does a lot of damage to a country, and quite apart from the Trump fans, I think moderate people and centrists will not be happy about this. The fact that Pelosi is delaying passing this to the Senate also does not look good.

Billy the Kid was a sociopath. He is apparently admired.

Trump is a sociopath. He is apparently admired.

The past three years look like a long series of point-blank flat-out lies told unchallenged by a man who is not actually quite right in the head. And yes, I think people too stupid to notice that Trump is a pathological liar and cannot be trusted are too stupid to be considered anything but stupid.

You reckon otherwise? Good luck. Oh, and I have this bridge for sale, if you are interested.

We shall see.

Indeed we shall. Especially given the Dems 'dry powder '.

Trump is a sociopath. He is apparently admired.

According to you, and the news outlets that you choose to read. During Obama’s second term there were a lot of people on the other side who were completely convinced that he was a dangerous malignant narcissist, and “not quite right in the head”.

I have no idea which - if either - of these narratives are true. And actually what I believe doesn’t really matter. I’m only pointing out to you that your “three years of point-blank flat out lies” looks completely different from the other side, and that I suspect you’re in for a shock if you think this is going to bring him down or win the Democrats the support they’ll need in 2020. And I really think that assuming voters are stupid because they vote for someone or something you personally can’t understand is a mistake. It lacks empathy or a genuine desire to understand, or something, and I think that’s where the Dems are going wrong.

But yes, time will tell.

His lies are in no way secret: he tweets them at an average of ten a day. It started with his claiming to have had the largest crowd ever at his inauguration even though it was patently untrue (and there were pictures to prove it) and has not stopped since.

This is simply me being able to read. Anyone can see Trump's tweets, and anyone who is able to read can read them and judge for themselves whether he is a liar or not by doing a bit of simple fact-checking. Either he knows they are untrue or he is unable to tell lies from truth, and to be honest I am unsure which makes him more unfit to be POTUS.

I understand those who vote for Trump pretty well, actually: and my understanding of them is that they are stupid, and also very suggestible. I know very well that a lot of people are stupid; I have been alive for many decades now and haven't been walking about with my eyes and mind shut. Nor do I assume that the people of the USA are not stupid enough (a majority in a few states, at any rate, though not the majority of voters) to vote for this sex-pest again: that would be pretty stupid of me.

I don't think anyone who posts regularly on these threads makes any particular assumptions about what will happen.

But nobody has given up.

It’s not that they think he’s a “poor persecuted little fellah”, It’s that - if you are NOT simply blinded with hatred for Trump - the last 3 years look like a long partisan attempt to find a way, by hook or by crook, to impeach a democratically elected President. The appearance is that they wanted to impeach from day one, and they’ve just been looking for something to hang it on. That is not good, impeachment does a lot of damage to a country, and quite apart from the Trump fans, I think moderate people and centrists will not be happy about this. The fact that Pelosi is delaying passing this to the Senate also does not look good.

This is simply spewing a Conservative talking point, and it’s just not accurate. Trump has committed impeachable acts - sorry. He’s a criminal. That’s just a fact.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/25/trump-judiciary-judges-legal-america

Thanks for the thread Claws and Happy Christmas one and all...

Late to the Christmas party but Season’s Greetings to one and all from a reader and occasional contributor
The damage caused by Trump to the poorer people in the US is probably going to be replicated by Brexit in the UK. But in these uncertain times who knows? It can’t just keep getting worse .

There's some truth regarding wanting to Impeach from day one. Because there's much evidence he accepted and asked for foreign help to be elected. An impeacheable offense.
Then tried to cover it up by messing with people in charge of the investigation. Another offense.

As someone observed, Trumpy is

A poor man's idea of a rich man
A failure's idea of a sucess
A weak man's idea of a strong man

And if the Dems can't all stop tearing each other to pieces and get behind grandpa Joe, they'll lose again.

And shut up, Elizabeth Warren.

Trump has committed impeachable acts - sorry. He’s a criminal. That’s just a fact.

By this yardstick, most any modern American president would have committed impeachable offenses.

So your facts are out of context.

The one modern president that probably should have been impeached, Bush Jr, for leading the West into a baseless war, was overlooked by Congress (including Pelosi). Obama is a war criminal if you interpret drones as a 'disproportionate' response (I certainly do).

Obama is a war criminal if you interpret drones as a 'disproportionate' response (I certainly do).
Why and how?

Are you OK with a military superpower picking people off in distant lands via drone, many of them civilians?

Was it part of the war in Afghanistan, or part of the CIA's secret programme? I'm actually not sure if there was ever confirmation one way or another.

But Obama was an excellent speaker and not embarrassing, I suppose.

How is specifically the drones you're complaining about and not sending troops or manned planes?

I love the "I'm no Trump fan but..." intro. Like leaving a wooden horse outside the front gate.

AlaskanOilBaron, if Obama had been impeachable, Republicans would have impeached him.

They controlled both House and Senate during his presidency, and made clear from even before they won the House that they would try to impeach Obama. Some even cited birther conspiracies.

Whether or not you agree with Bush Jr or Obama on the military issues you mention does not determine whether these things are impeachable.

What Trump is accused of doing in Ukraine is very straightforwardly impeachable, viz the use of the power of his public office for his personal political gain. It was on a national security matter, not an attempt to get a good table at a restaurant, so is important for the country. It's also well-supported by evidence.

(Of course it would be nice to also have the additional evidence of the witnesses Trump has ordered not to testify – and why would he do that?)

There's a reason that Trump is being impeached now, when he wasn't on day one. That's because this specific abuse of power is now known about, it's well-defined, and it's impossible to ignore because of the precedent that would set.

Don't worry, though. Mitch McConnell has said that he (leader of the Republicans in the Senate) will make no attempt to give Trump a fair trial and will turn this into a purely political exercise, in which he will work for Trump.

And now that John McCain has died, there aren't many Republican senators likely to vote on the facts rather than play political games. So I'd say Trumpie is safe from actually being removed. You can rest easy.

edition.cnn.com/2019/12/16/politics/senators-worry-white-house-and-gop-leaders/index.html

Annie I know! I think exactly that every time! It's so old and tired.

Trump is capricious and incompetent, he will cause irreparable damage to the USA