To refuse to go to racist family gatherings?

[Fizzysours]

I have been with DP for 22 years. He is one of three brothers, he's quite well travelled, and professionally successful. He is not racist or homophobic. He was bullied by both brothers growing up, which has affected him a lot.

I think his two brothers are generally highly jealous of him- they are both intelligent but have not been successful in their careers and have never moved from their home town. For 22 years now I have seen nothing but snipy bitchy put downs towards my husband, more like kind of thing you would expect from primary age kids. The brothers are actually quite affectionate towards me, but see me as fair game and utterly laughable as I have socialist views and can't stand racism and homophobia. They 'tease' me constantly by making racist comments. The dad joins in. They are definitely enjoying goading me, but they are also small town, bitter, unsuccessful angry men who genuinely also believe Daily Mail immigrant ranting crap and try to 'explain' their views.

I want to support my husband and see his family (especially his mum who is lovely and not at all well). However this Christmas (yesterday) we got together as usual in their town (we live further away, they all live yards from each other) and the constant racism was incessant. Both have split from long term partners this year and I think their GFs have acted as civilising influences in the past. Every other comment was racist. I never want to see either brother again. Racism is in my view a horrible thing that hurts people in very real ways. They realise how I feel but they do not care enough to stop the comments for a few hours, so should I feel bad even though they clearly love me?

My husband would want to continue to see them, I am sure, which is fine (although he finds their views completely unacceptable). I don't think he can really discuss it with them. They have very poor social skills, are frequently aggressive and have had huge fallings out in front of their parents in the last few years including a fist fight at a very upsetting time. The dad was so upset he was rushed to hospital with heart problems. So I won't be asking my husband to talk reasonably to them as they are not capable of it. My daughters love their uncles, ignore the racist crap and are not remotely influenced by it.

My side of the family is rife with conflicts so I know how much they upset everyone. Me no longer visiting if the brothers will be there will have to be openly discussed...mum and dad are too frail to travel to us and mum invites the brothers over every time we visit as she loves all her boys together. I love this lady and she has had a horrible few years with her health. She would find it very hard to understand and would just tell me to ignore the comments. But I am struggling to do so. Help!!

That's quite helpful thank you. I might just repeat 'I won't discuss race with you as we have such different views' every time. That would work with FIL. Although he has very racist views, he at least is very willing to be civilised and he doesn't enjoy conflict for the sake of it. But unfortunately the brothers mostly throw out constant racist comments, rather than try to discuss issues with me. I think I may have to think really hard about organising time just with FIL and MIL. Hard...she is not well and being in her own home is comfiest for her. And I can hardly tell her who to invite to her own home!

Don't go.

As a visible minority who is affected by the increasingly open and overt racism in the UK, I wish everyone who claims to abhor racism would take such a stand. 'Keeping the peace' silently condones such behaviour, regardless of what you say. In the current climate, that emboldens racists or at least helps let them continue. It's indirect complicity.

You just have to listen to views you dislike. Others are actively hurt by racists. Everyone who claims to dislike racism should be doing all they can to show that, strongly.

dontcallmeduck they have always known how I felt. It is not a surprise. Read the post. And I am delighted to say that yes, I look down on them. They are very racist. That is to me the sign of a low quality person. Nothing to do with job role or wealth. I bloody hate Boris too 😂😂😂

Surprise visits to your MIL are the way to go. No need to see the brothers, call her when you are leaving and take food.

Hobspawn I cannot pretend to understand your position but yes I feel if you tolerate racism (by not challenging it) you are complicit in racism...that is how I feel.

You do sound rather condescending which I don't think is intentional. I have to say and although your DHB are.totally in the wrong it sounds like they are trying to impress you with their 'knowledge' of the world outside their one. Go for MIL and don't rise to it, if shes that ill sadly you may not have too many years to keep quiet. Your DC are old enough to make their own decisions.

Oops just read you enjoy looking down on them, you are intentionally condescending. Funny how one remark changes a view isn't it.

Haha not sure I can be bothered to decipher that. Apologies for the condescending tone. Thanks to the posters who have actually really helped.

I only look down on them because they are extremely racist.

Then why even mention that they are small town, stuck in their hometown and have never been successful.

Unfortunately I come across a lot of racist comments professionally that I can’t always challenge. I don’t look down on that person, often it is out of ignorance and requires education.

I may not like people for their views but I do not look down on anyone.

Do you think they are accepting of and respectful to my views duck? They have historically bullied my husband and they try to bully me. And they do it in a way that promotes bullying and distain for huge amounts of my fellow countrymen. Nope, no respect for bullies, sorry. And why is 'small town mentality' such a well worn phrase? These guys are top dogs amongst a gang of guys they started primary with and still socialise exclusively with now. Nobody challenges them.... and yes that is part of the problem. If you have any helpful advice as others have, that would be great. But I am not a snob for hating small minded bigotry.

Is there any way you can speak to MIL without the brothers being included in the conversation? Either in person, or by calling her on the phone or writing to her? If that's possible - how would she take it if you were to explain very gently to her that you find the racism offensive and that you'd like to continue seeing her and FIL but not the brothers?

Alternatively you could pretend it's something else, e.g. getting headaches and finding big gatherings too noisy, but it would be more honest to say the real reason, obviously.

What's your DHs view (sorry if I've missed this along the way)? Does he want to keep seeing his brothers or is he happy not to?

How long do you usually visit them for and how frequently?

In all this time, have you never challenged them when they say something racist? You gave some examples earlier on, where they say all people from a race are lazy and on benefits - have you never asked them to provide proof for this to back up their position?

That would seem to be the easiest way to shut down racist comments. It seems to be that because you haven't, but they know it upsets you/you never speak out against it, they regard it as a game and carry on.

I feel your pain, OP, I too have a vile racist BIL who is a goady fucker. He's sexist too, and plainly thinks that possession of a vagina invalidates the possessor's opinions.

I'm one of those mouthy types who will not let racism or sexism go unchallenged, so things can get very heated. On one occasion (at MMIL's) when I put him right about a few things, he got very angry. He went into a sulk for a while and then, without warning, totally lost it and ranted vile insults at me. I just said "I will not be spoken to like that" and we left. We later heard that after we'd gone, SIL (his wife, there are 2 SILS) was in tears, crying about how he has to ruin events and so on, then MIL was in tears because her daughter was upset, BIL2 had a go at racist BIL for upsetting his sister and there was apparently, snot and tears all round.

Now, MIL is very diplomatic and when giving invites always tells us if he's going and what time they'll be there (kids do loads of sport, so they often rock up after matches and so on). We time our presence to minimise the overlap!

It sort of works, but if it didn't, I just wouldn't go if he was going to be there. The family all know he's a twat, so they're very supportive.

I feel very strongly about this. My husband and I are white but we have black children (that's another story). When we are out, for obvious reasons people don't realise they are with us. Since being in this position, I have noticed a lot of of racism towards them. I won't put up with it and I would ask that others don't too!

I don't agree with the 'poor MIL she has been quite ill so put up with everything for her sake' shtick. She is their mother and raised them. They are clearly racist because she herself enabled it. Enabled her husband, and her sons. She is as bad as she is.

OP you are not being unreasonable, racism is a real issue to me, and I would not go, because the MIL is complicit and she raised them to be bullies to your DH and her being ill does not take change that. Just because someone has been ill or is elderly doesn't change what they've done, especially if they haven't even tried to stop the brother's behaviour or address their attitudes. This 'oh she is an elderly ill lady' thing really grinds my gears. BS. She is as bad as her husband and sons.

Could your husband contact his mum to let her know you're not going (just make up an excuse if it helps with family tensions) and arrange to drop over to see her after the holidays?

Are you more middle class than your DP?

Interesting that some posters are more upset at you ‘looking down’ on racists than the actual racism...Everyone should look down on racists. They’re subhuman.

I would not be going anywhere near them and they would not be able to spend time around my DC.

Up to DH what he does.

Strange that some people think that not accepting racism and bullying makes you a snob.

You're in a shitty situation not least because you've put up with this for 22 years so making a stand now, when MIL is ill is complicated.

I think the best thing to do would be explain honestly to MIL. Tell her you'd love to see her and will still be coming to visit but next time you and dh will come at a time when she hasn't invited the BILs because you find their 'jokes' hard to deal with and you don't want to fall out with anybody. (If they turn up while you're visiting MIL then say hello in a polite and friendly way and explain you were actually just about to take the dds out and go and sit in a pub or whatever).

She'll say But they're only winding you up. They really don't mean it.

You'll say Oh I know they just want to wind me up because nobody is really that ignorant and nasty so that's why it's better if I just go out while they're around .

If they are deep down actually just fucking ignorant racists a bit thick but care about keeping their mum happy they'll tone it down for her sake.

If they make a big aggressive deal about it then you're only all the more justified in keeping apart.

I've just seen the 22 years bit.

This is now sounding all a bit strange. How come in 22 years you've not challenged these people on their racist statements?

My late Grandad could be racist & liked to use racial slurs whenever a black or Asian person was on the telly.
Of course I called him out on it but because he could tell it annoyed me he would do it more... But - my Grandad was born in 1914, was in his 80s and most crucially, had Vascular Dementia for over 10 years!!

Your DHs family members OP have no such excuse.
They sound very unpleasant not just the racism which is bad but the wanting to upset you ALL the time you are with them.

What I would do is either make an excuse to MIL or tell her the truth, then arrange to see her separately eg take her for coffee.
Don't ever see these nasty men again.
What your daughters do is up to them - they're adults now.

I personally wouldn’t allow my children around them either even if they’re adults. I don’t want to send any signals that I condone it. My DM has made racist comments looking around like people will laugh with her and me and DB2 shut it down every time and let her know in no uncertain terms that it’s beneath her and that it makes her look stupid and embarrasses us and we’re not having it. She was angry the first couple of times she was confronted but knows we’re not messing around and I am prepared to keep DC away if I think she will say something so she’s quiet now.

You have to shut this shit down straight away every time and let them know why and be prepared to make them suffer consequences e.g. not invited to family celebrations etc.

Evil succeeds when good people do nothing.

Awful lot of these "my -insert family/friends here- are racist and or prejudice in some way aibu to go nc/report to police/burn their house down? If you dont instantly agree with me then obviously you are worse than Hitler" type posts. Anyone mentioned Brexit or tory`s yet? Ashamed to be British blah blah?