That I'll never be able to vote or belong anywhere again?

[daretodenim]

I'm Scottish and live in an EU country where you have to be a national to vote. So I can't vote here. If I were to become a national, I'd have to renounce my UK citizenship. I'm British, I don't want to do that.

As I've been out of the UK for 15 years, I am not eligible to vote in the UK.

As I'm not living in Scotland I'm not eligible to vote in any Indy Ref.

I've been holding out hope that IF Scotland became independent I'd get a Scottish passport and somehow made a link that I'd get a vote. However, I realised today that every single time an indy ref is discussed by Sturgeon and she refers to Scottish voters, she refers to "the people of Scotland". She does not refer to "Scots".

So basically, I'm not considered a person of Scotland, as that's those who live there.

I'm never going to get to vote again, am I? In the country I'm living in (and will have to for complex reasons for the foreseeable future), I'm considered British/Scottish. They don't see me as one of them, because I come from abroad. Fair enough. Yet, neither Britain nor Scotland see me as one of them either, because I'm living abroad.

So if I want to be part of a democracy, I have to renounce my identity. I can't quite believe this can be happening.

Papers with the December 2019 Queen's Speech
"Work will continue on other areas related to our electoral system and further measures will be brought forward in due course, such as ensuring British citizens overseas can vote in Parliamentary elections for life, by getting rid of the arbitrary 15-year limit on their voting rights."

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/853886/Queen_s_Speech_December_2019_-_background_briefing_notes.pdf

One of the many good things to come from the great Conservative victory of 2019. Many thanks to all mumsnetters who voted Tory. You will not be sorry.

@Xenia let's hope that does come true! Australians are obliged to vote, wherever they are in the world, to the best of my knowledge, and I would love to see a similar thing brought into the UK system. The division amongst people currently is quite abhorrent.

Hope he keeps his word on this

Xenia no disrespect but your posts are hilarious.

Had the Tories really been so concerned about British citizens abroad and their voting rights, they would have done something about it years ago. Now that changing this law won’t affect them or the referendum result, they are paying lip service to it.

Why does anyone believe anything Johnson says?

I never understand this attitude, you don’t live here, haven’t done for 15 yrs but think you should have a say. Make a decision of what who you want to be.

I'm kind of shocked that people think because I live somewhere else that somehow I've stopped being British. My entire extended family and all my childhood friends are still in the UK. I visit at least once a year. It's my home country. I still complete a tax return every year. I still sound completely British. I have no idea if I'll ever move back or move somewhere else, but it's not like l flounced out of the country, slamming the door behind me.DH's job moved, so for now we live in another country.

As someone else said, should we change nationality every time we move, if we work internationally? I'm very surprised by the vitriol being shown towards people who move country. It's not that unusual.

OP, I thought you couldn't be forced to give up your nationality. The UK allows its citizens to remain even if they adopt another nationality. Where I live I could become a citizen, and retain my UK status. It's the original nation that gets to decide if you remain a citizen, not the new one.

you maybe should be aware that you cannot always leave a country you're living in if you're divorced and your ex doesn't allow it. You can be done for abduction of the children and lose all custody

But you say you've been there more than 15 years, the kids must be quite old now so maybe not that much longer to wait?

I do think British citizens in Europe should have got a vote in the referendum regardless of how long they'd been away. Not sure about general elections - either you want to live here or you don't. After 15 years I'd say you probably don't.

As someone else said, should we change nationality every time we move, if we work internationally

I do know someone who has done just that. Started off American, lived in South Africa, then came to the UK because things were too dangerous in SA, got British citizenship. Then decided it was too cold here and decided to move to Australia, and now has Australian citizenship.

I'm very surprised by the vitriol being shown towards people who move country.

Yes me too. Why the vitriol?

Jealousy?

Must be. Coupled with something else I am struggling to articulate.

I.e if Ed Miliband had been elected, the Tory manifesto wouldn't have been implemented, ergo no referendum and no brexit.

Yes, and if I had wings, I could fly.

Did you not bother to read the posts I was replying to?

Poster A - if Ed Miliband had been elected we wouldn't be leaving the UK.
Poster B - But the referendum was a Tory policy!
Me - I think you'll find that's what Poster A meant

I don't think it's jealousy. The OP has made choices (not applying for citizenship where she lives) which led to this position. The range of choices available to her may not be ideal, but it is still fundamentally her choice. Starting to talk about people being left 'stateless' makes her sound pretty idiotic, given that this is absolutely not the case.

The process of electing MPs in the UK is based on geography. That might not be ideal, but it is a valid basis. The OP will be affected by some decisions of the UK government, but then so will many non-brits. The OP will also be totally unaffected by many other government decisions. The funding of the NHS, for example, is pretty much irrelevant to someone who doesn't live here.

But you say you've been there more than 15 years, the kids must be quite old now

I've been living abroad for over twenty years. My youngest is three

I do think British citizens in Europe should have got a vote in the referendum regardless of how long they'd been away.

This would make sense, given that the voting in the referendum wasn't based on geography, it was a straightforward national tally, with a direct impact on all British citizens regardless of their place of residence.

Not sure about general elections - either you want to live here or you don't. After 15 years I'd say you probably don't.

Totally agree. After 15 years away, many of the day to day political issues facing those in the UK simply will not affect you.

I think it is now clear the 15 year rule may well be going to be changed to ensure even if you are in year 16 you will get the vote if those changes to which I linked above go ahead although letting people have 15 years to vote after lving abroad which is probably enough for most foreign office postings etc sounds like a reasonable compromise. I am not really sure we should extend it beyond that to even 80 years out of the UK and still able to vote here.

YANBU, I'll never understand why immigrants who've made their life in a country can't vote in general elections.

My mother, an EU citizen who has lived here for 50 years, could not vote in the 2016 referendum. Meanwhile, my Canadian colleague, who had lived here for two years was allowed to vote in it, by right of being a Commonwealth citizen.The system is ludicrous.

I'm very surprised by the vitriol being shown towards people who move country

No issue with people who moved country. I moved to Australia. I wouldn't have expected to be able to vote in UK elections. Seeing as I lived in Australia.

I've been living abroad for over twenty years. My youngest is three

I don't think that comment was directed at you. It was relevant to the OP's situation.

Good for you @chomalungma but I do

it wasn't directed at me, no, but the assumption that just because people have been away for a while it doesn't follow that their kids are older. People are still allowed to have sex overseas, you know

I wouldn't object to overseas voters having their own seat,

I think that's a really good idea actually, an MP at advocate for overseas citizens.

France has one of those.

If someone has emigrated abroad to make a new life abroad, then they should not be able to vote in the UK. They have chosen to make a new life in a new country.

If they have had to go abroad for work purposes, long term postings, and plan to return to the UK, then they should be able to vote in the UK elections.

what a ridiculous artificial distinction. People's lives aren't always that mapped out.