That I'll never be able to vote or belong anywhere again?

[daretodenim]

I'm Scottish and live in an EU country where you have to be a national to vote. So I can't vote here. If I were to become a national, I'd have to renounce my UK citizenship. I'm British, I don't want to do that.

As I've been out of the UK for 15 years, I am not eligible to vote in the UK.

As I'm not living in Scotland I'm not eligible to vote in any Indy Ref.

I've been holding out hope that IF Scotland became independent I'd get a Scottish passport and somehow made a link that I'd get a vote. However, I realised today that every single time an indy ref is discussed by Sturgeon and she refers to Scottish voters, she refers to "the people of Scotland". She does not refer to "Scots".

So basically, I'm not considered a person of Scotland, as that's those who live there.

I'm never going to get to vote again, am I? In the country I'm living in (and will have to for complex reasons for the foreseeable future), I'm considered British/Scottish. They don't see me as one of them, because I come from abroad. Fair enough. Yet, neither Britain nor Scotland see me as one of them either, because I'm living abroad.

So if I want to be part of a democracy, I have to renounce my identity. I can't quite believe this can be happening.

That was me. No of course, it's not the same as voting in general elections but at least by voting in local elections you can have some kind of say.

www.euronews.com/2019/12/03/britons-living-in-eu-countries-denied-democracy-in-uk-brexit-election

My DS-in-law (born in Scotland) lives abroad, in a country where she's not allowed to vote if she's not a citizen. She's currently not allowed to vote in the British elections either. She feels that NS speaks for her, as she's a Scot living abroad, and if Scotland becomes independent, she will apply to get a Scottish passport.

Work out how to vote in a country you actually live in and have a stake in.

15 years is enough to become a citizen in most of the world.

drspouse it's not about a passport, it's about the nationality. Once you filled in the form, sent the paperwork, paid the fee and gave up your nationality (which certain countries demand you to do before awarding you theirs), you cannot get another British passport because you are no longer a British national and therefore you are no longer entitled to one (until you apply and get the British citizenship again)

You could have a vote in your country of residence should you so choose.
Why should you have a vote here because of a sentimental attachment when you haven't lived here/paid taxes here for years? I don't want you have a say in my life!

I’m pretty sure you can get your British citizenship back if you renounce it to get citizenship of another country btw.... I mean I’m not an expert, but that’s how I read it.

I think that is probably quite right, why should you get to vote when you haven't lived here for years, even if that isn't what you want.

Well you can’t have it all ways either. You could vote if you renounce your British Citizenship, but you don’t want to do that.

I’m pleased foreign nationals don’t get to vote in the country they reside. They could ‘help’ sway a vote and determine the future of its own citizens. They could then decide to move out of the country and not have to live with the consequences of their decision. If someone can’t show enough commitment to a country then no, they shouldn’t have the right to vote.

It’s not about identity. Sally Smith will still be Sally Smith albeit with a different passport if she choses to renounce her original nationality.

I've not been in this country for 15 years! If I had I'd have probably married a local and been able to get local nationality through him AND keep my British one. Still no vote in the UK but would have solved the voting here issue.

But my marriage was to someone of another country so neither of us are locals.

I don't think you should be able to vote in two countries btw. There was a situation in The Netherlands where Dutch citizens of Turkish heritage were voting for aTurkish government that was anti-Dutch (or something like that). I think that's a ridiculous situation.

But I also think having to renounce your nationality to participate in state level democracy is not right either. How would I return home to the UK without a British passport anyway!! After Brexit I'd have to apply for a visa..and hope I had enough "points"!

Of course you can be a British citizen if you don’t live there. My children are British citizens and they have never lived in the UK!

I think there was a legal case a while ago in one of the European courts, a Spanish person living in Germany, challenged the German law requiring them to renounce their Spanish citizenship before becoming German. The Spanish person was successful and it was decided the Germany could not insist EU citizens renounce their original citizenship to become German, this was deemed to set a precedent across the EU. I'll try to find a link for you. Countries may not have updated their rules but the precedent should still apply. Unfortunately, this knowledge could come to late for you as come the end of next month you'll no longer be an EU citizen so won't have the rights that brings.

The Netherlands where Dutch citizens of Turkish heritage were voting for aTurkish government that was anti-Dutch (or something like that). I think that's a ridiculous situation.

Well we've just voted in a government that's anti Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish.

I'm a bit jealous of the people who see this as a straightforward situation. My Britishness and Scottishness isn't just sentimental. It's how I speak, its my hone, it's how everybody who speaks to me sees me, it's how my education was given it even impacts an issue I have with my teeth because apparently British orthodontics when I was a teen did something a bit different from others.

And I'm guessing people realise that there are plenty of Brits with dual (or even more) nationalities who vote in the UK as well as other countries?! And if I'd come back to the UK at 14.5 years, stayed for a year or so and left again I'd be able to vote? I'm not sure I'd be more or less British though?

It makes me wonder too what makes someone British.

Here's a bit of a link, not the one I was looking for though. Anyway, it includes this line -
Citizens of other EU member states have the right to dual citizenship inside the bloc.

www.dw.com/en/dual-citizenship-granted-to-most-naturalized-germans/a-45030118

Anyway, as I said it's a bit late for you as you won't be an EU citizen. Yet another 'benefit' of Brexit.

Ken thanks for that link - very interesting. I've never heard of it being applied in this country. And sadly I suspect you're right in that it's too late now.

Are you taking about wanting to vote in a British elections or about being able to vote in the country you reside in?

Do you think you should get to vote here? If so, why? Why would you want to? (Other than to exercise your right as a British citizen. Whilst that’s a fair point, I’d it not in vein? How would you being able to vote here benefit you right now?

I think I should have been able to vote in the Brexit referendum and by extension this last GE. Brexit has already had a massive impact on my life and I got no say in it. It will have a further massive impact, especially if there's a no deal.

I think that if you're British then you're British. Yes I should get a vote. I wouldn't object to overseas voters having their own seat, rather than influencing the seat of where they last lived. We are British and our lives are impacted by what the UK gov does overseas in ways Brits living in the UK don't experience.

So that's one aspect.

Should I have a vote here? Well the thing is I'm not a national of this country and even if I got the nationality, I'd always be an outsider. It's not like I moved here when I was 6. I'll never be completely fluent and I'll always have a strong accent and there will always be cultural references I don't understand. I've been in this country for far less time than I've been out of the UK. I'm not planning on staying here forever, I want to return to the UK. So I'm not sure whether I should get a vote here. If I had one I would use it (especially now I know what it means to not get a vote), but it's not for me to decide how another country determines who is eligible to vote.

Sorry it's really late here so I need to go to bed. I'll have a look tomorrow to see if anybody responds.

If I were to become a national, I'd have to renounce my UK citizenship

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Pick a country and vote there. You are very woe is me.

If you don’t want to live here, why do you think you have a right to vote?

I’m pleased foreign nationals don’t get to vote in the country they reside. They could ‘help’ sway a vote and determine the future of its own citizens. They could then decide to move out of the country and not have to live with the consequences of their decision

Except this already happens in the UK. All Commonwealth citizens residing in the UK can vote in a general election or referendum. The OP, although born and bred British, has less voting rights than an Australian living in the UK for a year.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
She has explained she is stuck abroad and may well want to come back at some point. Giving up her citizenship is risky and pretty permanent. Why should she be denied the right to return?? I'm shocked at such callous responses tbh.
No country should disenfranchise its citizens wherever they may be. I disagree with a lot of what Johnson says usually but he's 100% right in this instance.

People are so bitchy towards expats. Of course you don’t stop being a citizen of your home country just because you move abroad. 🙄