That I'll never be able to vote or belong anywhere again?

[daretodenim]

I'm Scottish and live in an EU country where you have to be a national to vote. So I can't vote here. If I were to become a national, I'd have to renounce my UK citizenship. I'm British, I don't want to do that.

As I've been out of the UK for 15 years, I am not eligible to vote in the UK.

As I'm not living in Scotland I'm not eligible to vote in any Indy Ref.

I've been holding out hope that IF Scotland became independent I'd get a Scottish passport and somehow made a link that I'd get a vote. However, I realised today that every single time an indy ref is discussed by Sturgeon and she refers to Scottish voters, she refers to "the people of Scotland". She does not refer to "Scots".

So basically, I'm not considered a person of Scotland, as that's those who live there.

I'm never going to get to vote again, am I? In the country I'm living in (and will have to for complex reasons for the foreseeable future), I'm considered British/Scottish. They don't see me as one of them, because I come from abroad. Fair enough. Yet, neither Britain nor Scotland see me as one of them either, because I'm living abroad.

So if I want to be part of a democracy, I have to renounce my identity. I can't quite believe this can be happening.

There are so many countries where you retain your vote even if you never live there.

Shocked by the rudeness of the responses to the OP. This is her country. I grew up a foreigner in an EU country, I was always a foreigner there. You don’t automatically become “of the place” just because you live somewhere, so of course your original nationality and identity are fundamental.

At any stage you might return as well, so your vote does matter.

Fuck off are we not affected by the outcome. If Ed Milliband had been elected instead of David Cameron we wouldn't now be being forced out of Europe against our will

It’s not against everyone’s will.. Over 17 million people voted to leave the EU.

You can't vote in the general elections unless you have British nationality

Yes you can. People from Fiji and Namibia were eligible to vote in this past election, while Brits abroad weren't.

If they'd extended that franchise to the 5 million most affected people, which they could have chosen to do, the vote would most certainly have gone the other way.

There are plenty of people whose jobs/spouse's job moves them internationally every few years. They've been outside the UK for 15+ years, but not in one country. Should those people be not British and a citizen of each of those countries? Or just not British (so stateless).

Fuck's sake, people in this scenario are not 'stateless'. They will have a British passport for as long as they wish to retain it! They just can't vote in a country they don't live and work in.

Some real bullshit being trotted out here.

the vote would most certainly have gone the other way.

Yes.

which constituency would you vote in

Easy. Some countries have a special MP for overseas voters.

Fuck off are we not affected by the outcome. If Ed Milliband had been elected instead of David Cameron we wouldn't now be being forced out of Europe against our will.

You do realise that the referendum was on the Tory 2015 manifesto, and not on Labour's?

I think that was the exact point the poster was making!

I.e if Ed Miliband had been elected, the Tory manifesto wouldn't have been implemented, ergo no referendum and no brexit.

yep, I was a bit erm wut... at that, thanks!

Why do so many people think that if you live abroad, you’re not affected by events in the U.K. We have been away more than 15 years so can no longer vote but we still have property and investments in the U.K. that are affected, so little imagination from little englanders

I have applied for citizenship here (dual nationality allowed) but so far I have waited almost two years for it to be granted. Apparently it’s been accepted but ‘in the system’ so I still have no right to vote in either of the countries where we pay tax. How is that ok?

Why do so many people think that if you live abroad, you’re not affected by events in the U.K. We have been away more than 15 years so can no longer vote but we still have property and investments in the U.K. that are affected, so little imagination from little englanders

I could buy a property abroad, somewhere I have no othet connection to, in any country which allows this (some dont). Should I get a vote in that country?

Should all the foreign investors who have bought up swathes of London real estate get a vote in this country? People would be up in arms if they did.

Similarly, should foreign investors in UK companies get a vote here? Because that is the logical conclusion of your argument about people who have property and investments in the U.K. being able to vote here.

Of all the possible qualifications for being able to vote, "I've chosen to locate some of my money and investments in country X, therefore I should vote there" would surely be the worst....

The difficulty is that there are inconsistencies thrrough British policy and EU policy, and OP falls through both.

Surely OP's resident country not permitting dual nationality is as much to blame as British policy, as that makes it an either/ or situation.

The difficulty with the British electoral system is that it's very geographically based. Not so bad for an area such as the Scotish Highlands where it is a massive geographical area, but some constitunencies in London are only a couple of square miles. A long term, semi-permanent absence means no specific geographical location. Over 15 years a "base" of somewhere like a parental home could well have become redundant.

I can appreciate that the legal situation in OP's country is holding her there without any great love for the country and that OP does not want to sever her links to her home nation and eliminate an eventual return.

“some would even deny me the right to ever live or work in the UK again (because I'd have to apply for a visa and as I have dependents, I wouldn't meet the necessary points)! “

Again... the way I’m reading the home office guidance is, that if you give up your UK citizenship for one of another country - you can get it back.

Of COURSE UK politics will affect brits who live abroad. People saying it doesn't affect us are absolute ignorant nutters.

I feel you OP, I was facing the very same situation myself in two years time only the country that I live in is going to introduce dual nationality next year so I am saved. It's an awful feeling, I'm so sorry

Omg some massive green eyed monstering going on here. I get it op. It’s really not fair. In your position I would not give up my British / Scottish citizenship. I now have dual citizenship thanks to brexshit as my dh is European. I live in the uk now but did live abroad for around a decade. I would not have given up my primary identity to retain my European one regardless of where I was living.

The Netherlands frowns upon dual nationality and therefore I will have to renounce my UK citizenship to gain Dutch nationality, which for me is a greater problem.

Should all the foreign investors who have bought up swathes of London real estate get a vote in this country

The Tories are giving their Russian oligarch pals citizenship, as it happens.

I.e if Ed Miliband had been elected, the Tory manifesto wouldn't have been implemented, ergo no referendum and no brexit.

Yes, and if I had wings, I could fly.

Some of the comments on here are

You can't just switch nationalities like brands of tea.

And why should we?

We took up some opportunities that came our way. Whilst that might have only been intended to be for 6 months etc etc, often one door opens another and here we are, 15 years and 2 months later. We are British. DH and I were brought up there, we have our families there and quite frankly, we don't have the opportunities in the UK that we have here. Our children are being brought up bilingual, we pay NI contributions (voluntarily) and into a small pension, in addition to what we are paying here. Our families are all in the UK.

Just because we don't live there right now, and because we don't have any immediate plans to return to the UK, doesn't mean that we are less British or have any less rights than anyone living in the UK. There is no time limit on our Britishness, and we are absolutely still affected with trade agreements, bi lateral agreements and other such basics that allow us, as people, to take up the marvelous opportunities that have been afforded to us.

Where did I mention foreign investors voting. A British citizen who is still affected by government policy should be able to vote

YANBU, I'll never understand why immigrants who've made their life in a country can't vote in general elections.

I think it's fair enough that you can't vote in the UK (possibly with the exception of referenda), but you should be able to vote in the country where you live, pay tax, experience the healthcare, your children are educated etc.

Quite shocked to read the number of posts saying immigrants shouldn't vote, or that OP isn't really British. I can only assume those posters have little personal experience of emigration.

I'm fortunate in that I moved from Ireland to the UK so I can vote in everything. I would hate to be unable to do so.