That I'll never be able to vote or belong anywhere again?

[daretodenim]

I'm Scottish and live in an EU country where you have to be a national to vote. So I can't vote here. If I were to become a national, I'd have to renounce my UK citizenship. I'm British, I don't want to do that.

As I've been out of the UK for 15 years, I am not eligible to vote in the UK.

As I'm not living in Scotland I'm not eligible to vote in any Indy Ref.

I've been holding out hope that IF Scotland became independent I'd get a Scottish passport and somehow made a link that I'd get a vote. However, I realised today that every single time an indy ref is discussed by Sturgeon and she refers to Scottish voters, she refers to "the people of Scotland". She does not refer to "Scots".

So basically, I'm not considered a person of Scotland, as that's those who live there.

I'm never going to get to vote again, am I? In the country I'm living in (and will have to for complex reasons for the foreseeable future), I'm considered British/Scottish. They don't see me as one of them, because I come from abroad. Fair enough. Yet, neither Britain nor Scotland see me as one of them either, because I'm living abroad.

So if I want to be part of a democracy, I have to renounce my identity. I can't quite believe this can be happening.

@Songsofexperience

You’re quite right about the right to vote for Commonwealth Citizens and I think that’s wrong too, as do many others.

It’s absolutely ludicrous that because of the ties with the British Empire, years before any of our time, people have right to vote here, despite not necessarily having the right (or want!) to live here permanently. It’s crazy!

I suspect many of the will chose not to vote despite being allowed. A student here in a gap year, I mean I doubt they would care who got voted in and chances are they wouldn’t even register to vote. It’s astonishing they have that choice though.

I feel for OP in the sense she wants to vote not for what happens here, but for what happens to British Citizens abroad, I’m particular an EU country. I can understand why she’d want a say and I don’t have a problem with her being allowed to vote, after all it affects her especially with Brexit.

I assumed from the original post she was wanting to vote in the country she was currently in but I think she’s meaning here. Which case, yes I think she should be allowed. If she’s living outside Europe then I think it’s indifferent as British nations won’t have the same rights as they would in Europe (currently). So I fail to see why she’s want to vote

I do find this argument ... 'strange'.
I left home when I was 18, a decade later I dont expect to have a say/vote on what wall paper is put up at 'home'.

Your home is where you live, not where you used to live.

15 years is more than enough time to make the decision, where is your home? When we have an election, the people who live in the UK have an opportunity to decide how the UK is 'decorated'. It is not fair for people who have chosen to live in foreign countries to decide how we live.

Some interesting points.

1. Where is home? Well when people ask me that I always say my home town. Home is where the heart is? That's not the place I live because of circumstances outside my control. That's my home. Where I grew up. Where many of my friends are. People ask me where I come from. I tell them the Britain/Scotland, but I live right now in the city I'm stuck in.

1. How long after leaving the UK should voting cease? And by extension:

1. How long should someone live in a country before they "become" that nationality. There are plenty of people whose jobs/spouse's job moves them internationally every few years. They've been outside the UK for 15+ years, but not in one country. Should those people be not British and a citizen of each of those countries? Or just not British (so stateless).

1. At what point after someone moves to the UK, but is not British, should they be allowed to vote?

anywhere again. It would seem the answer to that is no, given the majority of answers. I don't belong here where I'm stuck, I am not considered British by Brits and some would even deny me the right to ever live or work in the UK again (because I'd have to apply for a visa and as I have dependents, I wouldn't meet the necessary points)!

The idea of not retaining nationality after X period of living abroad is a big strange. It's the ultimate sanction - even British terrorists who killed with ISIS retain their nationalities, only in exceptional circumstances is it removed. So the people who think I'm not British because I've been outside the UK for 15 years and one day would see me sanctioned more harshly than a terrorist who most certainly doesn't hold "British values"!

It's not true that everybody living in the UK and who calls it home has the right to vote there either btw. I'm not a total anomaly!

And certainly in the Brexit referendum EU citizens who certainly should have a say about not just the "wallpaper", but the structure of the rebuild of their home had no say. That was because they weren't British.

OP, bite the bullet and become a citizen of the place you are resident. It’s the position I’m going to take now Brexit is a go. I’ll will never be Dutch and London will always be ‘home’ but my life is in The Netherlands and a change in passport won’t be such a big deal in the end.

Morning OP, big friendly "expat" wave from an EU citizen in the UK. I didn't move here with the intention of staying for 12 years as I have. I didn't even move here with the thought I was "moving to England" - I was just moving within the EU.

There is a democratic void that I think needs addressing at EU level (probably wider actually but at least within the EU, it may be possible to get it done) that I think wasn't considered when freedom of movement was conceived.

I've no intention of becoming a British citizen, I'm an EU citizen, I don't feel a need to collect citizenships of individual nation states. Shouldn't mean I'm left disenfranchised, this isn't the 19th century (except perhaps England is a bit stuck there).

So, just to say, I get it, life is complicated and so is identity. Interesting that so many pp can't imagine that might be the case.

It's not true that everybody living in the UK and who calls it home has the right to vote there either btw.
Indeed. You can't vote in the general elections unless you have British nationality, even if you lived here 30 years and paid taxes all that time, having never lived abroad during that time.

It makes no sense to me at all that your right to vote should be based on your nationality rather than residence. Surely the reason for electing one party over another is based on the impact it has on your life and that of those close to you.

Still, not being able to vote in the latest election turned out to be an actual blessing!

Yes I'm with @catlady3 on this. It's complicated. When I came to the UK as a student I certainly had no long-term plans and I was not 'emigrating'. Well 30 years later I am still here. There definitely is not 'going back' for me and my family. I did vote in my country of origin for a long while but eventually gave up my registration there after maybe 10 years. However this does not make me British. And yes with Brexit (actually before) I gained British citizenship, partly due to the law referred to above which now allows dual nationality for my country. Previously I would not even have considered it, even though I never considered going 'back' either. It's so complicated and @daretodenim I totally get it. Those respondents who just say "well you should have got the other citizenship" - it's really not as easy as that, and especially now with Brexit you'd potentially cut yourself off from family etc who I expect still live in the UK. Not to mention the COST, for British citizenship at least. Swapping between the two, such a simplistic suggestion, even if you just considered it as a paper-based registration issue rather than one of identity (and swearing allegiance to the Queen etc)

But opposed to you, while the non-representation in the UK where I live and pay taxes really grates (or rather did), but I must admit that at least for national elections in my home country I did not miss it, not being able to follow the political scene there. However not being able to vote in a fundamental question like Brexit that affects my future because I am still attached to the country of origin, I'd have felt very disenfranchised.

I lived in the UK over 20 years, I am not a British citizen and never will be and accept I cannot vote here. I can vote in elections in my home country and I do as I want to use my vote and hope one day to move back home.
I find it very strange how people think it’s easy to just swap nationalities. I have lived in Britain longer than in my home country, but I don’t feel British at all and never will. Lots of people move around different counties and you can’t just constantly swap nationalities every two years.

I think you should only get to vote in a country if you are on the electoral roll of that country through residency and are a citizen of that country. I don't think expats who don't have to live with the consequences of their votes should get to vote.

How would you vote? In which constituency would you vote in? Or would you just choose one?
I can no longer vote in my country of nationality either and feel a pang about this but thinking about it how would I vote? Would I vote for the last constituency I lived in? Or would I vote in the constituency my parents live in? Or my sisters live in? Or would I just choose one out of the bag? I doesn’t work if you don’t live where you vote.

In my country in national elections you vote for the party only.

I get it. And it is a bit of an anomaly with national's of many other countries being able to vote from overseas. You can normally vote in local elections in the country you are living in though.

And it does affect your future, I do feel that Brits living in the EU should have had a vote in the Brexit referendum, and Scots in the independence one. It's ridiculous that you didnt have a say in changes that affect your very identity and citizenship. The Scottish referendum was going to be particularly complicated for Scots not born in Scotland and living overseas.

Many overseas Brits have not emigrated permanently. They are working in other EU countries for many reasons, the same way other EU citizens are living and working in the UK. Many still pay NI in the UK, maintain homes there or hold savings and other investments.

If you don’t want to live here, why do you think you have a right to vote?

So many people have come back with this rude and ignorant response.

There are many countries where you do get a vote, even if you haven’t lived there for your entire life, so the UK is an anomaly.

YANBU OP and certainly not “woe is me” as someone else said.

I would however take any promises that Boris the liar makes with a pinch of salt. He’s saying that now, because it won’t affect the referendum result or his dirty ascent to power.

I think you should only get to vote in a country if you are on the electoral roll of that country through residency and are a citizen of that country. I don't think expats who don't have to live with the consequences of their votes should get to vote.

Exactly. You aren't living here, you don't live with the consequences. If you're that concerned, why did you leave? You've been gone a long time, probably close to half of your life, maybe even over half depending on how young you are. Why does it matter so much? Your vote means nothing because you don't have to live with it, we do.

Never get why people move somewhere yet continue to want a say in their old country or keep telling everyone in the new country how the old country is better. That happens a lot where I live, they move here yet keep going on and on about how where they previously lived was better. Why did you come here then if its so bad? And they still want a say in where they used to live but don't get it.

I'm not patriotic though and certainly don't feel proud to be british. More like embarrassed with how shit the country has become.

I do feel that Brits living in the EU should have had a vote in the Brexit referendum

Yes, and EU citizens living in the UK should also have been able to vote. Especially since they have been and will be hugely impacted.

You do have the option though to renounce your UK citizenship and have chosen not to.

And as a Scot, living in Scotland, I don;t think you should get a vote on the day to day issues affecting those of us living here and paying taxes here.

the outcome won't affect you...

Fuck off are we not affected by the outcome. If Ed Milliband had been elected instead of David Cameron we wouldn't now be being forced out of Europe against our will.

And to a certain extent I agree with this. When I have been living abroad, posted by my work, I generally don't think that I should be voting in national elections in that country. I don't understand enough to make a good decision, I won't be there long enough term to be affected and I don't use enough local services for that to be important to me. Local elections are alright if I'm there long enough to be impacted by, for example, council changes. In some countries I've seen local candidates actively canvassing in English (or French or whatever) outside multinationals where they know many eligible voters work when local elections are upcoming.

You don't live here, so why should you vote? Same for Scotland - you shouldn't have a vote in an election that doesn't affect you.

If you want to vote you need to become a citizen of the place you live. The fact that you haven't done so is a choice you've made, so yabu to whinge about it.

I am in the same boat, although I do intend to apply for citizenship in my host country (non EU). It's awful not being able to have a vote, esp as we still make NI contributions (through choice), have a UK private pension and just because we don't live in the country currently, doesn't mean that we won't come back or that we aren't affected. We could decide next week to return, even though we don't plan to today. I find remarks that imply we aren't entitled to our votes rather short sighted and uninformed.

We only possess one passport, our children only possess one passport and we should be allowed our say.

If Boris does restore this, then I would be delighted.

I live in Aus and don’t have dual citizenship yet. I still have my right to vote in the UK but don’t because I don’t live there and it doesn’t sit right with me having a say somewhere where it doesn’t effect my daily life. It’s abit hypocritical don’t you think?

it is a bit of an anomaly with nationals of many other countries being able to vote from overseas

British nationals can vote from overseas within 15 years of leaving.

www.gov.uk/voting-when-abroad

If someone has been away that long, they are unlikely to return and have had plenty of time to apply for citizenship where they now live. If they choose not to do that, or feel insufficiently uniformed about their new country (that they've lived in for 15 YEARS!) to vote there, that's on them.