That I'll never be able to vote or belong anywhere again?

[daretodenim]

I'm Scottish and live in an EU country where you have to be a national to vote. So I can't vote here. If I were to become a national, I'd have to renounce my UK citizenship. I'm British, I don't want to do that.

As I've been out of the UK for 15 years, I am not eligible to vote in the UK.

As I'm not living in Scotland I'm not eligible to vote in any Indy Ref.

I've been holding out hope that IF Scotland became independent I'd get a Scottish passport and somehow made a link that I'd get a vote. However, I realised today that every single time an indy ref is discussed by Sturgeon and she refers to Scottish voters, she refers to "the people of Scotland". She does not refer to "Scots".

So basically, I'm not considered a person of Scotland, as that's those who live there.

I'm never going to get to vote again, am I? In the country I'm living in (and will have to for complex reasons for the foreseeable future), I'm considered British/Scottish. They don't see me as one of them, because I come from abroad. Fair enough. Yet, neither Britain nor Scotland see me as one of them either, because I'm living abroad.

So if I want to be part of a democracy, I have to renounce my identity. I can't quite believe this can be happening.

OP there are some countries which restrict dual nationality (e.g. United States) but on a wink and nod basis i.e. don't tell us show up at passport control with your non-US passport and we won't bother you about it.

Does your new country require actual evidence of renouncing, or just require you say that you have/will?

SonEtLumière - I think you're projecting.

I have been encouraging them to become a citizen of their new country and to learn the language.

It's better to look forward, imo.

Then become a national of the country you are residing in - I don't see the problem? Especially if you have no intention of ever moving back to Scotland

I don't see why you should have rights to vote in Scotland - YOU DONT LIVE THERE

I wonder if their is another referendum in Scotland on breaking up the UK will everyone in England, Wales & N.Ireland get a vote on it. After all we will all be affected by it.

walkingdead

In the same way that the left spouse doesn't get a divorce veto, no, the rest of the UK won't get to vote on whether the people of Scotland are permitted to leave.

.because you are a citize? and: students; the disable; the unemployed and pensioners who similarly don’t pay tax there do get the right to vote (and many who work & pay tax ARE denied the right to vote... on the basis that they have no citizenship

The disabled, unemployed, pensioners living in the UK are affected far far more by Government policies than someone who has decided to emigrate from the UK, hasn't lived their for more than 15 years and may pay some UK taxes and - like many other people in the world who are not British citizens - are affected by UK Government policy.

Oh - and if you have made your home in the UK, then there should be a point at which you can have a say in how the UK is run.

the rest of the UK won't get to vote on whether the people of Scotland are permitted to leave

but its not 'fair', it will affect me.

picsinred the country requires proof.

The people who think it's unfair for non-resident Brits to vote because they believe UK elections have no impact on Brits abroad, do you think the idea of a "Brits Abroad" constituency would be fair? That MP would be responsible for our issues but our votes wouldn't impact your local constituency issues. And as it would be another constituency, when you move into it (move abroad) you would fall into it, not after 15 years.

The Tories are almost certainly going to abolish the 15 year rule so you will get to vote in the next general election

Scottish Government have never supported overseas voting for Scotland. That makes sense to me as everyone who’d lived in Scotland but was now in England NI or Wales would get to vote!

RHTawny when I started this thread I didn't know the stories were going to change it. I'm happy they are however, now reading other thoughts I'm really hoping that they make overseas a constituency. I too don't think it's fair that I vote in my home constituency.

What makes someone Scottish though? Is it just moving and when you cease to live there you cease to be Scottish? I was born and raised there so thought I was Scottish..but according to the SNP I'm not. Scotland becoming independent also massively impacts me! In the last Indy referendum there was no clear outlines for those of us abroad and what passports we would need, by when and how we would get them given there's no Scottish passport office! And for those of us in the EU, what would our status be! Again, while our voices may not be appropriate in constituencies, we have very real issues directly related to governmental policies that affect our healthcare, our pensions, employability and our legal status.

@OLDquestion

You say this

“I do feel that Brits living in the EU should have had a vote in the Brexit referendum

Yes, and EU citizens living in the UK should also have been able to vote. Especially since they have been and will be hugely impacted.

No way should EU nationals living in the UK get to vote whether we leave or remain in Europe!! That’s absurd. Yes the decision will impact the EU citizens, but that’s an unfortunate consequence of living in a country where the majority of people don’t want to be part of the EU.

It’s a British vote not an EU vote!!

If the chose to become a British citizen then yes of course they would get to vote but if not then no absolutely no way

I disagree. A lot of the EU citizens you are talking about have been here for decades and have families here, have paid tax etc.

They didn’t become British citizens because it wasn’t necessary. They didn’t know that they would have the wool pulled out from under their feet or that they wouldn’t be able to vote in a referendum that would so fundamentally affect them.

Yes it was a British vote and they belong to this British society and have done so in many cases for many years. That was the point.

@OLDquestion

No they shouldn’t get to decide if we come out of Europe. They aren’t British. It’s irrelevant if they’ve been here 30 years or 30 days. If they don’t want to become a British Citizen (because they don’t want to lose their rights as an EU citizen- and fair enough) then they shouldn’t get the right to vote whether we leave or remain.

Of course they won’t want Britain to leave the EU as they benefit from it hugely at the moment and no doubt it would/will impact their family/friends in their home country etc... but that’s that unfortunate. If they don’t want to become a citizen they shouldn’t have the right to vote in the referendum.

Why would it be fair for you to vote in Uk when what happens will not affect you one bit?

Many of these EU citizens have British partners and children, have made a life here and paid taxes. Nothing to do with “how good they have it here” or their “friends back home”.

However yours is the side of the argument which has sadly won (Theresa May and her “citizens of nowhere” argument), and we are and will be a poorer society in all ways for it IMO.

I don’t understand the outrage at my views. I am not the only person to hold them.

@Berrylove do you not have the imagination to realise that it does affect expats in lots of ways

Such narrow minded views on here

I now see exactly why we got the referendum result, wtf has happened to the uk?

@OLDquestion

Of course most of the people that voted remain would hold views similar to you, because it would help their cause.

Most of the people that voted leave (I voted leave but then changed my mind as a matter of fact and chose not to vote for the tories in the end) would hold the view that they shouldn’t be allowed a vote.

I can understand why they wouldn’t have previously wanted to change their nationality, because currently they benefit from not doing so. They benefit from being part of the EU in a way that average British Citizen doesn’t feel like they do. (The fact we voted to leave as a country illustrates that)

You can’t have your cake and eat.

You can't vote in the general elections unless you have British nationality

Nope. Any citizens of the Republic of Ireland, British Overseas Territories and Commonwealth countries (including Pakistan, Fiji and Zimbabwe who are not currently in the Commonwealth as the law has not been amended) can vote in UK general elections. The electoral roll is marked with various code letters as to the status of each person and in which elections they can vote.

It’s not really to do with remain or leave though or having your cake and eating it.

I think that EU citizens who had lived here for a pre-determined amount of time should have had a vote in the referendum yes. Not people who had just arrived, but people who had invested time and effort into their lives here and this was/is their home.

Many of them did not become British because there was no need to - and many of them come from countries that allow dual nationality.

As members of the EU we could also set up home elsewhere without having to take on a new citizenship. Our EU citizenship is what afforded us rights and protection.

Some of the EU citizens who have settled here and who have really integrated, have had their lives turned upside down. Not to mention being used as bargaining chips during the last three years. IMO that is not civilised behaviour on the part of our politicians.

@OLDquestion

But you say that many EU nationals are having their lives turned round etc but they ones who you are referring to, regarding being here for decades etc won’t have their lives turned upside down.

It is to do with the remain or leave though. That’s what the referendum vote was for and nothing else. I’ve personally got no qualms with them voting in a normal general election, but as far as the referendum, absolutely not.

So for example, you have an EU national, who has lived here for say 20 years, has a family etc... but choses NOT to become a British Citizens, because it benefits them to keep their EU nationality (fair enough)..... but tell me how it’s fair that they get to vote in a referendum that keeps Britain in the EU when the majority of Brits want us to leave??! It’s not fair.

There is a way around it but if the chose not to take that route then they can’t expect to be able to vote.

It’s not about paying taxes etc because everyone that pays taxes here benefits from it too. NHS, schooling etc