That I'll never be able to vote or belong anywhere again?

[daretodenim]

I'm Scottish and live in an EU country where you have to be a national to vote. So I can't vote here. If I were to become a national, I'd have to renounce my UK citizenship. I'm British, I don't want to do that.

As I've been out of the UK for 15 years, I am not eligible to vote in the UK.

As I'm not living in Scotland I'm not eligible to vote in any Indy Ref.

I've been holding out hope that IF Scotland became independent I'd get a Scottish passport and somehow made a link that I'd get a vote. However, I realised today that every single time an indy ref is discussed by Sturgeon and she refers to Scottish voters, she refers to "the people of Scotland". She does not refer to "Scots".

So basically, I'm not considered a person of Scotland, as that's those who live there.

I'm never going to get to vote again, am I? In the country I'm living in (and will have to for complex reasons for the foreseeable future), I'm considered British/Scottish. They don't see me as one of them, because I come from abroad. Fair enough. Yet, neither Britain nor Scotland see me as one of them either, because I'm living abroad.

So if I want to be part of a democracy, I have to renounce my identity. I can't quite believe this can be happening.

Yes why not

Because when you leave the country and are gone for over 15 years, and the only thing that affects you is UK tax, the chances are that most people will vote for a Government that will lower the tax that they have to pay.

They are not affected by education, schools, social care, NHS, housing policy, infrastructure. They have 'nothing in that game'.

Maybe you would vote for a Government that increases the tax their overseas residents have to pay.

But most wouldn't.

That's why.

tope là çavabien

And I buy things in the U.K. to be shipped here, so pay vat to

So you would like to see it lowered.

People who move abroad still have parents, siblings, and nephews and nieces back home. Why would they automatically vote for lower taxes?

@chomalungma
I’m a struggling with this 15 year rule.

I got my french citizenship last year and automatic right to vote In presidential elections etc despite having not lived there for over 15 years. In fact I need never have lived there. The country sees me as an equal citizen with equal rights despite not living there.

Perhaps if you and others, who believe the same crap spouted moved abroad for a considerable length, you’d understand the complexities of living abroad. As is, you don’t.

People who move abroad still care about it is the main point, not the VAT etc. They care and want to see the best government for the people who live there, be they family or friends or just people.

It never stops being your country.

le who move abroad still have parents, siblings, and nephews and nieces back home

So why not go the whole hog and grant voting rights to the children of ex pats as well? After all, they might be affected by inheritance tax as well, and their relatives live in the UK.

At what point do you leave the country behind?

If residence trumps citizenship then why were so many outraged when Labour suggested the franchise be extended to EU citizens?

Perhaps if you and others, who believe the same crap spouted moved abroad for a considerable length, you’d understand the complexities of living abroad. As is, you don’t

Uhhh. Yes. I do. I emigrated to Australia.

You dont live in Scotland and have no intention of doing so so why should you have a vote in how it is run?

Surely arguing expats should have no say but also foreigners shouldn't either is a prime example of cakeism.

At the point you stop being a British citizen. Why is this hard to understand?

People who move abroad still care about it is the main point, not the VAT etc. They care and want to see the best government for the people who live there, be they family or friends or just people

Some do. Some don't. Because ex-pats are a mixture of people. Not a homogenous mass.

So why not go the whole hog and grant voting rights to the children of ex pats as well?

Yes of course this too. I have Italian citizenship through my mother. She was an expat, I am her daughter. If I chose to do so, I could vote in Italian General Elections.

At the point you stop being a British citizen. Why is this hard to understand

I am arguing my point. I disagree with your point. I don't agree that you should have a vote in the country you emigrated from if you have been away for many years because you aren't affected too much by what happens in the UK.

There is little argument against that except:

You might pay some tax in the UK
You have friends back there.
Foreign policy affects you.

And that's it.

I am Scottish and couldn't vote in the referendum because I live in England. It was so frustrating but I understand that I don't live there, so have to accept that I don't have a say in how it is ran.

Most of my family live abroad and can't vote in the UK elections anymore as they have been gone too long. They live, work and pay taxes in other countries but don't have the right to vote in them which I think is very unfair. But, not having the right to vote in the UK is something I can understand.

Anyway - there is little point in arguing this because it's going to happen anyway.

The Conservatives have a large majority.
It was in the manifesto.
It's in the Queen's Speech.

So when we get the next election, I hope that all these ex-pats take the time to research what is happening in the UK and choose their votes wisely.

I guess you can pick a constituency as well.

It was in Cameron's pre-referendum manifesto too, so I'll believe it when I see it. I wonder if you'd feel differently if you'd moved to Europe rather than Oz or if a referendum was stripping you of your rights in the country you moved to?

Just thinking through my response a bit more...my mum has not lived in the UK now for 30 years. She visits once a yea, we chat most weeks, and she reads the bbc website and the guardian online, but her knowledge of the UK, its policies, its social makeup, what it is like to live here, the feel of the place etc...is completely dated. Her memory is a bit stuck in the 1980s, when we left (I lived abroad as a teen)...so from that perspective, I am not sure she should have a say in how our country evolves. On the other hand, she gets a very small pension from the time that she did live and work here, so maybe that should give her some say. On the fence a bit with this one.

At the point you stop being aBritish citizen. Why is this hard to understand?

I understand, I just disagree. Someone who emigrated at age 20, retains British (or dual) nationality, but is still living in their new country age 90 should not have a vote in UK general elections. They have absolutely no skin in the game - they do not use our education system, NHS, police etc.. (paying tax is irrelevant as many overseas people pay UK tax for various reasons). I believe there has to be a cut off somewhere, whether it is after 10 years, 15 years, 20 years etc.

I also believe that foreign nationals with indefinite leave to remain in the UK who have been in the UK for +15 years should have a right to vote in UK general elections. For exactly the same reason as my belief above - they DO have skin in the game.

I do not see having relatives in the UK as being the same as being resident here.

I also believe that the Brexit referendum was a special case. Because the referendum related to the fundamental rights of all British citizens (e.g. freedom of movement), voting should have been open to all British citizens.

Moving to Australia is somewhat different.

How is it?

if you'd moved to Europe rather than Oz or if a referendum was stripping you of your rights in the country you moved to

I think the referendum was different. Because you 'had skin in that game'.

I think it depends on your intentions. I moved to make a new life somewhere. To leave the UK behind. Life happened and I came back.

The fact you are unaware that decisions in Westminster profoundly and negatively impact on British citizens who have no vote and no recourse, and that you subsequently don’t care makes you a horrible person

Decisions in Westminster affect many citizens of the world.

Why shouldn't they get a vote?