To want to raise our child Bilingual

[NewMumBGentle]

Bit of background DP is Italian, born in Italy, family still live in Italy, Italian is his native language, we've very much made a home here and have no plans to live there, although e go over to visit his family.

I'm currently 32 weeks with our first child, a little girl and the conversation tonight turned to her meeting the family when shes first born, from that id mentioned that i'd like DD to be raised bilingual. DP disagrees, he says we'll be living in England and that his parents speak conversational English so will be able to communicate with her that way, he thinks theres no point confusing her with two languages at home and is adamant he will not teach her. His parents so speak some English but there's still what i'd consider a language barrier there, i'd teach her myself but my Italian isn't the best. I just about get by when I'm there.

AIBU to be annoyed by this? I feel like she has this connection to this beautiful language and culture and he's denying her that.
AIBU

Haven't rtft but as pp said, I'd be furious too. I recently heard if a family friend (British) raising their children abroad and not speaking English with their children, and I was like wtf? Really bad decision and your children will lose out on a reality useful skill that they could have just acquired naturally with very little effort on their part... it could open up numerous career and study opportunities for them, and all he has to do is speak and read / write with them in his native language.... madness not to do so!

I read youve less chance of developing dementia if youre bilingual.
Tell that to my poor Mum. Brought up tri-lingually and actually went from slightly forgetful to full on dementia in a very short space of time. Sadly it made no difference for her.

My mum was also bilingual and she got dementia too. I do however think that being bilingual might have slowed the progress of the condition. She never stopped recognising us and she was able to switch effortlessly between languages until the end.

Children hardly lose out forever by not learning English from their dad. My cousin's children were brought up bilingual with an English mum abroad and they speak broken heavily accented English. In other words, pretty much the same level of English as millions of people who have learned it in lessons or language courses. People who are still moaning their dad didn't teach them Spanish forty years ago are a tiny bit odd if you ask me, it's not like you could never do it at school or as a foreign language.

@Nearlyalmost50 of course they can learn it later but it will be so much harder. The best age to pick up any language is before 7 years old. At the age of 6 a child's mind absorbs languages like a sponge. Growing up in a opol house hold I never had to 'learn' to speak my DM mother tongue just as an british child growing up in the UK never had to learn English. My DM went through great efforts of paying for a satellite to watch chinese tv, at least 50 different kids cartoons movies, whole series of tv shows all in chinese so that practically 80% of the tv I watched was all in chinese. She lied to me about not speaking german and by the time I caught on at 5 she could speak it I was just too used to it. With English she again tried at the age of 8 to immerse me as much as possible by sending me to an english speaking school and borrowing up to 5 movies all in English every week making sure most of the tv I watched was english, requiring me to read 2-3 english books a week and putting on english audio books going to sleep. It was hard work but she is happy I am as fluent in all three languages.

I will admit though that unless you work outside the UK or in translating/interperting it is pretty much just a novelty skill and cool party trick then any real life career advtange.

Your DH is BVU to refuse.

Where a parent speaks learned, imperfect English to their child, the child will pick up the parent’s idiosyncracies and accent while young, and feel embarrassed by the parent’s odd English when older.

I have trilingual DCs. Glad I did it that way. They were not confused at all. I also have an excellent career thanks to my languages.

Sadly there is nothing you can do about it though, you can only give your language. I was lucky that my DH was totally on board (although he really only speaks English) but his Spanish speaking mother provided most of the care so they are all pretty fluent.

People who are still moaning their dad didn't teach them Spanish forty years ago are a tiny bit odd if you ask me, it's not like you could never do it at school or as a foreign language

It’s not odd; on the flip side, it’s very odd when a parent deliberately cuts their child off from their own heritage language.

I knew many Chinese-Americans when I lived in China studying the language who were very bitter about it indeed. They could have skipped the whole language course thing and started straight away building their career in China, which is actually an incredibly useful language. Instead, they were no better and often worse than some white girl like me 😁 even though socially Chinese people expected them to be fluent.

My lovely sister in law was studying in France when she met her French partner. My niece and nephew are now 6 and 10 but have been bi-lingual for as long as I've known them. Though they're not together anymore, if the children call their father then they speak French and obviously sound French as opposed to an English person speaking the language. Was also fun to go to euro Disney and see 2 children speak seamlessly between the 2 languages! I started learning French when I was 7 and wish I'd kept it up to be honest. I think it's a lovely idea to learn a second language and if you were to go on a holiday to Italy for example, it'd be nice to all communicate together.

It really depends on what his reasons for not wanting to do bilingualism are.

If his reasons are "It will disturb their ability to learn English and they will get confused," showing him some of the research on this and (if possible) finding some way for him to meet with bilingual families would be a way to set his mind at rest about this. He might be happy to do hsi minority language with her as soon as he feels reassured that it is not going to harm her in any way.

On the other hand, there can be other, more emotional, reasons for not wanting to do OPOL or at least feeling some resistance to the idea, especially when the children are being raised in an English speaking country and the minority language is something other than English. If DH speaks Italian and Mum speaks English, and English is inevitably the main language of the home, it can feel lonely for Dad speaking his own language by himself. And it is hard to get children fluent in a minority language in an English speaking country-English is just such a strong and overwhelming language. And even more so when it is the non-primary parent who is the minority language speakerthis is the case for most fathers, as opposed to mothers.

If the kids understand Dad's Italian but won't speak it back, it can feel even lonelier for the parent in question. There can be a frustrating feeling of wanting to talk to your child on a "deep" level, only to find that you are limited in your conversational scope (because there is so much of your language that they cannot really understand) and that they keep answering back in another language, making conversations feel awkward and stilted.

Passive bilingualism (where a child understands a language but does not yet really speak it much) is still very vaulable, because the kids will be at a huge advantage later on when they decide to start learning and using the language properly---which in my experience they usually do. But in the meantime, it can be psychologically quite hard work and demand some commitment on the part of the parent.

Where a parent speaks learned, imperfect English to their child, the child will pick up the parent’s idiosyncracies and accent while young, and feel embarrassed by the parent’s odd English when older.

No, they won't. I know several familes where an immigrant parent speaks the majority language to their child, despite it not being their native language. Privately, I think do it's a bit of a shame that their child has missed out on the chance to learn Thai or Russian, but the children's competancy in the majority language is absolutely fine. Children do not, long-term, copy their parents' speaking style----they copy their peers' speaking styles. That is why children raised by Scottish parents in London end up with London accents, not Scottish accents and not half-Scottish-half-London accents.

And children will have to put up with hearing their parents using the majority language (complete with grammatical errors and "foreign" pronunciation) even if the parent is doing perfect OPOL, because obviously parents have to use the language with other people! It makes no difference.

@Kokeshi123 Very well said.

The thing about this topic is that you can find research to support whichever argument and we all have anecdotal proof from all the options.

My cousins as an example are bilingual. The older one speaks the two languages perfectly, never loses words, has no accent. It has been a massive benefit for him professionally. Where as his 2 years younger little brother struggles with both languages and has a strong "non native" accent in both languages. So you don't really know beforehand if it will be a good or a bad idea. Research will tell us both.

Well no, actually, it doesn't. Research is very clear on bilingualism. Most of the arguments against it are opinion/anecdotal which has been proven (on a larger scale) to be false. Just because one child that you know has struggled with language does not mean that bilingualism is the cause of that struggle - possibly they would have struggled with language even if monolingual.

Parental imperfect English is not a barrier as children can differentiate between the correct English spoken by the majority and the imperfect English of a non-fluent speaker, just as children learn to differentiate between playground slang and the type of language they ought to use e.g. when writing an essay.

Seriously. I've studied this a lot. Bilingualism is a gift for children. Yes, they may pick up the two languages slightly slower at first but then they will catch up and become fluent in both.

Multilingualism is common in many cultures and switching regularly between two languages has been shown to be very beneficial to the brain.

Also, with a language as beautiful and sought after as Italian I think your DP would be a fool not to impart this to your DC. It could potentially be a career for them. They will always be able to teach Italian and would do so with authentic accents.

So tell your DP he is bonkers!

Pretty sure Robert Winstone covered this on Child of Our Time with the quiet Asian girl. Her parents and I think her nursery teachers thought she had a language delay but she came out top in the tests.

I've seen a nursery child learn to communicate the same as their English speaking peers in 2 months. If I was in this position I would flood the child with the 2nd language at home as much as possible.

What I find very interesting is bilingual children with SEND issues and how they express their bilingualism.

PP have mentioned this in passing but what I find with bilingual people (and I know quite a lot) is that they often have a slightly different personality or way of speaking between the languages. I notice this more with one of my DC than the other (or anyone else)

Parental imperfect English is not a barrier as children can differentiate between the correct English spoken by the majority and the imperfect English of a non-fluent speaker, just as children learn to differentiate between playground slang and the type of language they ought to use e.g. when writing an essay.

Absolutely. My friend learned English as an adult so although her English is very advanced, you would know it's not her first language.

Her DC on the other hand speak both languages perfectly, with no trace of an accent, and are now studying English Literature at uni. It's pretty amazing how kids can pick up two languages so well.

Kokeshi123 this is kind of what happened to us. My husband never cut the children off from their heritage language, they heard him speak it on the phone, to relatives, we spoke bits of it saying simple phrases at home, but our family language with him was English. It IS lonely being the only one speaking a language different to everyone else around you and the family language, I found it a bit odd when I spent a long time abroad. If the dad is not in in the day much, and the bond with the children slightly less pronounced than with the mother, then insisting on speaking Italian and them speaking it back will get tiring when they are in school, around English all day and perhaps don't want to speak Italian when tired/not in the mood/self-conscious teens.

It's like people think it's a wilful denial whereas actually, it's probably to some extent easy (or lazy) to just all speak the same language at home. My husband spoke English in England for 20 years and to me all the time and trying to always speak his other language was not particularly natural with the children as we were a family constantly interacting.

I am tri-lingual (is that even a word?!) because neither of my parents is British. I don't remember learning any language and went to school, apparently, with barely a word of English and quickly picked it up. Your child won't be confused at all. Bear in mind that it won't necessarily mean that the child will be able to write the language though-my written German is ok, Spanish, not so much! However, you'd be wasting a huge opportunity if you don't simply both speak in your native tongues to the little one.

My child is bilingual - if you have an opportunity, use it! It is an amazing skill both personally and when it comes to work - straight away they have an advantage.
And for grandparents it is definitely nicer to be able to converse in their own language.

I'm half Italian. My mum is English, Dad Italian.
My dad was the same. All his family lived in Italy and all my mums in England.
I picked up bits of Italian from going over there but I'm not fluent.
I am so annoyed at my Dad for not making the effort to teach me from a young age.
It has really hindered my relationship with my Italian side as when I do see them I can't communicate properly except in broken Italian. My Nonna in Italy is furious at my Dad over this.

My (imaginary, I don't have any!) children would be bilingual in your circumstances. It's a perfect opportunity for them, and I really admire parents and children who have achieved this.

It's like people think it's a wilful denial whereas actually, it's probably to some extent easy (or lazy) to just all speak the same language at home. My husband spoke English in England for 20 years and to me all the time and trying to always speak his other language was not particularly natural with the children as we were a family constantly interacting.

This resonates with me. My Dutch cousin tried to do OPOL with her elder son and found it really hard as she otherwise had no reason to speak Dutch. She lived and worked in her husband's country (Germany), had her inlaws and many friends there so there was no-one except her son that she used her own language to on a day to day basis. She was her son's main carer as she only worked part-time, but gave up when her son only spoke German back to her. In this situation, the languages covered two neighbouring countries, and they visited her parents and sisters frequently. I think it would be even harder if the countries were quite far apart and visits and holidays infrequent. On the other hand, it's probably much easier if you are part of an expat community, or if you have never really become confident in the language of the host country.

My Grandfather is German, from being young he has been a huge part of my life. I had no father so he took on that role, he spoke German to me and for a while I was bilingual, switching seamlessly from German when with Opa and back to English when with Mum. But then I am told I started struggling with writing in school, specifically my English grammar, as German often has a different order to sentences, so the school advised my Mum to stop any German and focus only on English. My grammar improved within the month, but within that short space of time I "lost" my German. I am so sad that this happened, because now I only know one or two phrases of it, not enough to even hold a conversation. I can remember one phrase and the word for butterfly (not sure why butterfly stuck haha). There's a whole side of my family that I can't connect with and it feels so strange to have such roots in Germany but feel so alienated from it. My Mum isn't fluent in German either because she was raised in England by my Gran whilst my Grandad worked for the UK in the RAF, and I always worry that if I lose my Grandad, I'll also lose half a family also as he translates for us at family events etc.
Has he explained further why he doesn't wish to teach your Daughter Italian?