To want to raise our child Bilingual

[NewMumBGentle]

Bit of background DP is Italian, born in Italy, family still live in Italy, Italian is his native language, we've very much made a home here and have no plans to live there, although e go over to visit his family.

I'm currently 32 weeks with our first child, a little girl and the conversation tonight turned to her meeting the family when shes first born, from that id mentioned that i'd like DD to be raised bilingual. DP disagrees, he says we'll be living in England and that his parents speak conversational English so will be able to communicate with her that way, he thinks theres no point confusing her with two languages at home and is adamant he will not teach her. His parents so speak some English but there's still what i'd consider a language barrier there, i'd teach her myself but my Italian isn't the best. I just about get by when I'm there.

AIBU to be annoyed by this? I feel like she has this connection to this beautiful language and culture and he's denying her that.
AIBU

I lived in swenden for a time and everyone i knew who had parents from 2 countrys spoke their own language to their children i know 1 child whose mum was english dad was Pakistani and went to a swedish day care, i also had a swedish friend in england and only spoke english to her children,when the children went to visit their grandparents their could not talk to one another

@notnowmaybelater well I started preschool at four. Before that the vast majority of my interactions were in Russian, after that most of my interactions outside of school were in Russian until about 8 when I started reading for pleasure and many of my Russian speaking friends converted to English (although this may have made things worse because we all had a similar version of English). My parents didn’t do it deliberately, it just turned out that way. They were Russian speakers, their friends who were the parents of many of my early playmate were the same. It’s similar to if I had lived in a Russian speaking country watching an occasional English cartoon then moved to an English speaking country when I started kindy and had a most of my socialising in a Russian speaking community before I became old enough to make my own friends.

Language teacher here
I teach adults these days
Often get requests from adults with foreign background who wished they'd done it as they grew up

I’m torn with this. It’s an amazing opportunity but difficult if you’re the only person/parent trying to teach this one language. I think he is unreasonable not to try but I tried with my kids and still do but they’re nowhere near bilingual because I basically forget all the time and they never hear the second language apart from me because my partner doesn’t speak it apart from a few words and understanding. It’s very difficult

my DH is German but was born in UK and said he thought in English and so refused to talk to the kids in German. He also did not spend nearly as much time with them as I did. Now we have 3 teenagers and they all resent the fact that they are having to work hard in German lessons to learn something that they could have already known. Interestingly my oldest scraped through her GCSEs but got a 9 in German and my other 2 are doing really well at German too so I think it is in their genes but they poo poo me for saying this .

@notnowmaybelater Thank you, the advice is really helpful. I will definitely be making more of an effort to immerse us both in the language and community, it's something I've been putting off as it feels very daunting and scary but it's time to do it! Luckily at the childcare she attends no one speaks English so she is spoken to purely in the local language and I also converse with them in that and we manage to get by! They tell me although she doesn't have many words in the language her understanding is good so I'm hoping that's a good sign and the words will come in time but I don't want to be complacent and realize in a year or so that it's not just naturally happening and have missed an important opportunity. Thanks for the advice!

I would also add that my oldest brother married a French girl and they had 2 bits. One found it very easy to learn both languages and the other was very delayed in both languages. If you could is going to struggle with speech and language, learning 2 languages will increase the struggle. However they are now both bilingual so he got there in the end

@Alte that’s surely more likely a result of parentage than bilingualism though. Without exception all the Russian parents I know were in some way better, better educated, more resilient, more intelligent etc than the average person. It’s not really surprising given that the average person doesn’t pack up and move to a country where people don’t speak their language. They are by and large people who push themselves and push their offspring. It’s important to consider this factor when attempting to draw causal links between bilingualism and intellect/success/resilience etc etc. Childhood Bilingualism is complicated, so are the situations that give rise to it.

Velveteenfruitbowl I think that these days, with the benefit of online communities and more accessible writing on the subject, that's probably an approach parents can avoid. You almost weren't brought up bilingual at all, but monolingual russian until you went to preschool. I've encountered English speaking "expats" who do exactly the same thing here in Germany - they think sending their children to local kindergarten will make them bilingual but only socialise in an exclusively English speaking circle, and their children's playmates are the English speaking children of other expats, so the children never genuinely become bilingual because German is fairly strictly limited to kindergarten/ school, and sometimes the children are quite withdrawn there.

The language ghetto situation does create problems sometimes. It is hard to strike the right balance and I'm sure nobody gets it absolutely perfect, but there certainly needs to be a deliberate and consistent, prolonged effort to mix!

My father is Spanish but never taught me any growing up - very embarrassing to sit in high-school Spanish lessons and have to explain that. And yes, I resent him massively for this (and it has negatively impacted our relationship)
Please show your DP this message and beg him to reconsider - it's very hard for me to feel "Spanish" in any way

I was brought up bilingual (well there were a handful of languages spoken in my family!) and it didn’t confuse me at all. Didn’t confuse any of my siblings or cousins either! I did the same with my kids. They used to string a sentence together using different words in different languages (or would use a different word order!) when very young, but no problems now, and both are hooked on the duo lingo app as they want to learn more languages!!

Simon and Ponder I am always super impressed by DC translating (not sure why though as I also could do it as a DC!)

DS is 3, he has a nonna (Italian), and a lola (Filipina) and if he talks about them to nursery etc he explains they are grandmas, apart from one day he was playing in DMs garden with two little girls who had a 'nan' (which is a word I don't use/hear often in my town), and so when he talked about his nonna to them he automatically changed it to 'nan'...I think its so cool how easily he's picked up that people say the same thing in different languages, and knows which one to use.

She won’t be confused. My son is being raised bilingual, but English and Welsh, so not quite as exciting as Italian!

@Nearlyalmost50 yes, exactly! I’m constantly a bit off somehow in my head. I try to hide it in my interactions, I suppose I mostly succeed in written word, especially it the content is technical or very simple (my creative writing is woefully ott and brooding though, can’t help myself). But in social situations I find it difficult to have a meaningful interaction with monolingual English speakers because they often can’t quite understand what I’m trying to say. I find that bilingual people who’ve been raised bilingual in the same way (as opposed to olop for instance) are sometimes better at comprehending without the right words but even so there are limits to what you can achieve that way. I end up using a lot of made up words and composite words or going into lengthy descriptions. I suppose I’m not really going to achieve the kind of perfect thought to word speech unless I somehow manage to completely erase all vestiges of the effect of one of the languages on my neurological development. I can’t say that it’s a price I’d be willing to pay but it’s not easy to live with. It’s easier now that I understand than it was before when I thought I was just odd or so how simultaneously clever and stupid.

@notnowmaybelater I don’t agree. I think it’s better to keep the languages separate in that you learn them fully rather than as equivalents. I can translate Russian into e flush but it’s never a direct translation because I match the sentiment rather than the words. It’s much easier to pick up on that when you keep things separate. Otherwise a lot of the value is lost and you get people who can speak two languages but only really understand one with the soul. Mind you they don’t tend to be weird though which is a bonus.

Velveteenfruitbowl not mix languages, mix with native speakers of the community language if you do native language at home.

What your parents did until you were 4 (or arguably 8) wasn't to bring you up bilingually at all. They brought you up in Russian, whilst being geographically located outside Russia.

Your DP is an idiot.
I'd be really annoyed about this.
I studied languages at uni, so I worked hard to learn languages, and always thought it would be amazing to be brought up bilingual (or multilingual).
As a result after I met and married my French DH it was a no brainer that we would bring up our child(ren) bilingual.
Luckily he agreed.

I wonder if it's an Italian thing - I once worked with someone who had a really Italian name (first name and surname) but couldn't speak Italian because he was born and raised in the UK by an English mother and Italian father who didn't bother talking Italian to him. I thought that was a bit ridiculous tbh. If you're going to give the kid an Italian name you should teach him Italian FFS!

Your husband would be making a big mistake
I have got my kids in Spanish and French classes because I am determined that they will speak another language

My Mum is from another European country and my Dad is English, she said she started to speak to me in her native language but felt that it was difficult for her (We lived abroad, think forces) as my Dad spoke none of the language, and everyone around her was speaking English, so she stopped.

She says that to this day, not raising me and my brother to speak both languages is one of her greatest regrets (We both went on to learn the language of our own volition) so please, do encourage him to teach her! I feel deeply connected to my Mum's home country, and being able to speak the language has really deepened that. If he teaches her now, and she chooses not to use it then okay that's fine, but let her have that opportunity! Plus is has always been an excellent way to discuss my Dad's Christmas and Birthday presents without him having any idea haha.

One parent, one language works great you'd be crazy not to.

Your daughter will be half Italian. She will presumably have Italian cousins, aunts, uncles, etc who probably won't speak good - if any - English. How can she communicate with this half of her family unless she learns Italian? And even if they do speak English, it's not just about practicilities, but about your daughter's heritage. Of course she should learn Italian. It is part of who she is.

Ask your DH to read up on the copious research showing the immense benefits of being raised bilingual.

It's a brilliant opportunity for her, and when she visits she will be able to talk to everyone! My boys go to a welsh school and can speak english and welsh, it's amazing how quickly they pick it up. When they are just starting the teachers say things in English and welsh, and use gestures so that they start understanding and pick things up. My oldest is 6 and can translate for me as well. Try and change his mind

@notnowmaybelater well there were obviously a lot of native English speakers at school (almost all of the teachers and at least two thirds of children). Certainly the first part was almost exclusively Russian plus an additional language which I have since dropped (long story but we stopped socialising with the people who spoke the other language and I rarely spoke it so it didn’t have much of an effect on me, probably similar to if I had spoken English at home and only some Russian, this is why I think the fully immersive method is more valuable). But the second part was more of an even mix (considering how much time was spent at school). Then from eight onwards I had more interaction with native English speakers than any other group. Obviously not having the early experience of the Russian would have avoided the issues I have since experienced but then I wouldn’t understand Russian properly so what would be the point in knowing it at all? I almost never actually need to speak it, employees dont care that I can speak it. The value I get from Russian is the intellectual breadth rather that the linguist ability itself. Having had two dominant languages in two different stages of my life (plus the transitional stage) has equally enriched and disadvantaged me through the neurological effect while speaking an additional language hasn’t been useful. If you merely want your child to be able to speak another language fine, but there is very little value to that in comparison to the alternative (although as I’ve stated there is a price to pay for this alternative experience). Let’s put it this way, if I could only understand what Russian people say in English terms then I would truly understand at all. That’s why so many English translations/interpretations of Russian literature are so terrible. The meaning gets lost. That’s why Anna Karenina is so bloody annoying and whiny in English.

I see both sides.

I think it's wonderful to be able to switch between languages effortlessly as some of the bilingual people I know do. I think it's a wonderful gift.

However it isn't always without issues. I know of a couple of cases where they planned on doing this, and the child had no words at all at over 2yo, and they were advised to drop the second language. In both cases the child began to speak the first language within a couple of weeks. In one of those cases they tried reintroducing the second language and the child refused to speak at all for several months even after they'd dropped trying again.

I was speaking to an Italian chap the other day, and talking about exactly this. He said they'd brought they up bilingual, but as soon as they were old enough they refused to speak Italian, and although they understand a bit as adults they never speak it.

So it's not always plain sailing.