To want to raise our child Bilingual

[NewMumBGentle]

Bit of background DP is Italian, born in Italy, family still live in Italy, Italian is his native language, we've very much made a home here and have no plans to live there, although e go over to visit his family.

I'm currently 32 weeks with our first child, a little girl and the conversation tonight turned to her meeting the family when shes first born, from that id mentioned that i'd like DD to be raised bilingual. DP disagrees, he says we'll be living in England and that his parents speak conversational English so will be able to communicate with her that way, he thinks theres no point confusing her with two languages at home and is adamant he will not teach her. His parents so speak some English but there's still what i'd consider a language barrier there, i'd teach her myself but my Italian isn't the best. I just about get by when I'm there.

AIBU to be annoyed by this? I feel like she has this connection to this beautiful language and culture and he's denying her that.
AIBU

@Velveteenfruitbowl That is so unfortunate you had such a negative experience. I have been studying bilingualism for many years now, I am native Italian and my husband is English and we are raising our daughter bilingual.
There are many nuances in the way bilingualism is conceived and developed. In your situation, it seems Russian was indeed the main language and cultural reference, while English was an outside framework that didn't really interact as much. I deduce this as you said it was reserved for school and you were not able to speak English fluently until you were 10. Language, as you mentioned, is only an aspect of cultural learning, and it does make a big difference if both languages/cultural systems are dominant in the child's life, instead of one being very peripheral as English seemed to be in your case. My daughter speaks Italian to me, but she also speaks English with my husband at home and she is constantly exposed to both cultural systems and languages, while we also try and help her navigate differences and similarities as much as we possibly can. This obviously makes a big difference in the framework she is creating, and I can tell it is working because she can switch from one system to another depending on who she is speaking with (she is nearly 3)
. When talking to her Italian grandparents, she will naturally use Italian words but she would never do that with her English grandmother. It is a very complicated subject and parents do have a big role in it, but I would definitely recommend it as I can see the enormous value it can create.

It's a wonderful gift to be able to give her!! Would he be ok with she just speaks Italian to him at home? I know a family who did that(with Italian as the language as well as it happens) and it worked out perfectly.

YANBU, but you can't force him if he doesn't want to.

However I think I would start nudging him to either research it for himself - he will only find positives - or try to find other Italian-English families near you so he sneakily gets exposed to the idea that of course it's normal, possible and useful. :o Would he be the type to read links, books, etc if you sent him some?

There can be quite a common belief from some immigrant families that language is a kind of zero-sum game, ie, that by exposing her to Italian he will be pushing the English out. He may believe that by speaking Italian to her, he will be disadvantaging her at school etc. This isn't held up by research but it's quite a common belief.

Btw 2 of my children have always spoken to me in English (I'm in Italy). The 3rd always spoke to me in Italian - until he turned 9! It pays to persevere!

Your DP doesn't understand language acquisition in children if that is his line of argument. Your child will benefit enormously from a bilingual upbringing; there is no good reason to deprive them of the opportunity. Even if they don't maintain their Italian into adulthood, this will help her brain development enormously. Make sure they have exposure to both languages, often, from day one!

*their brain development!

Linguistically, it is difficult to raise a child bilingually in a “monolingual” environment like England. It also takes a lot of effort on both parents’ part: specifically you would need to both agree that (say) you only speak English while your DC is in earshot and your DP only speak Italian. As soon as your DC works out that both you and DP speak English she’ll stick to English unless she has reason to use Italian.

'Annoyed' might be a bit harsh. Raising a bilingual child does bring some challenges that could be avoided by sticking to one language. And while his logic is flawed, it's not unreasonable to assume that learning two languages must be harder than learning one, and therefore will cause your child problems.

It's not at all unreasonable to want to raise multi-lingual kids, but I can get why he might feel a bit daunted on top of everything else that comes with parenting. Perhaps steering him in the direction of other people's experience (maybe not from a MN thread) and talking through strategies will help to reassure him. And you can talk up how it's important that your child has a grounding in both cultures - you might have no plans to relocate to Italy, but the child might like the idea later in life (or circumstances might change your plans). You don't need to threaten about 'what if we had to move to Italy and our child couldn't speak a word of it', but highlighting the extra flexibility your (extended) family would gain is worthwhile.

I've some experience of a bilingual upbringing: DD is three and speaks her second language as well as her English. We've basically gone OPOL, with me doing the English and her mum doing the other (won't specify in case of outing). So far, it's working. She doesn't have problems speaking the 'wrong' language to people (she knows, for example, that granddad only speaks English); she doesn't have problems mixing the two languages (even though they are grammatically v different and have relatively little common vocab). And she seemed to start speaking at the same age as everyone else, maybe even a little before. Even though the languages in question use different alphabets, so far there's no sign that she's muddling those either. She is just beginning to learn to read and write, but our problems are simply not recognizing the shape, rather than thinking it's a shape from language 'A' when it's really from language 'B'. I've been amazed, and humbled, by how well she's picked up the two.

I suspect he's worried that it will be a lot of work, and mostly for him because he's the native speaker and can provide the most appropriate model to imitate. In reality, I'm not sure how true that is. Teaching kids to talk involves a lot of time chattering away about anything and nothing but he'll be doing that in one language anyway - why not in his native language? There may come a point when the child needs some formal teaching; I can see that being an issue at school age when there's a structured approach to developing English-language skills and (possibly) nothing comparable in Italian. But the child will be learning the same letters, making similar sounds; worst case would be speaking Italian with an unusual British accent.

The only thing that is likely to be harder is sourcing bedtime stories, DVDs etc in Italian. I'd assume family can help with that, though, if they can send things from Italy. YouTube is also pretty handy when you need an authentic, non-Disneyfied Pinocchio.

TL;DR - it feels hard until you start doing it (like everything in parenting); it gets much easier once you start (unlike almost everything else!).

I wonder if he is getting his ideas from Italian relations. Bilingualism isn't really valued in Italy and I have heard of speech therapists discouraging it.

She won't be confused, DBro and I grew up speaking Italian at home and English at school and spoke both fine. DS age 3 is growing up hearing my Italian parents speak Italian to me and generally understands them but replys in English (I am teaching him Italian but its going slowly!) His English is 'advanced' for his age (says HV) so he hasn't been negatively affected by hearing 2 languages regularly.

Academically it helps older DC too too, I was always good at langauages at secondary school and did A levels in Spanish and Italian without much studying.

Also, now the UK has left the EU I think knowing another European language will be so useful 'just in case' e.g. If UK tuition fees end up as high as US ones I'll be glad the DC know Italian and can be sent to Milan university instead!

Please please convince your DH to change his mind - I know many people whose parents didn't pass on their native languages to them and who then ended up studying said languages at university years later (so learning the hard way and with no chance of passing as a native speaker). It's so so important! Also raising my DS bilingual (English/Polish)

Presumably there is a difference though between OPOL (where the child experiences two languages from birth and speaks them both as soon as they are able to form words) and the situation where one language is spoken at home and then another has to be learned when going to school. Obviously the latter is likely to be more difficult (although still so much easier than trying to learn a language as an adult).

Actually there are a lot of Italian degree courses being taught in English now.

Definitely go for a bilingual upbringing. I researched this a lot when I was pg with DC1 (23 years ago) and there are several methods - we're native English speakers in a EU country so we went for Minority Language At Home (MLAH) where we only speak the local language when speakers of that language are around.

I would imagine, unless your Italian is flawless, OP, that your approach would be better if you followed the OPOL (One Parent One Language) approach where you each speak to your child in your native language.

It is a lot of work: my tip for raising bilingual children is that when you read to them, read in each language each time, singing songs and watching films and so on needs to be done in each language. It's not just the language but the culture too.

At some point the children realise they're different and refuse to speak one of the languages (usually the languages their friends don't speak - so the non-local language). Best advice there is to press on speaking that language to them - they will understand.

It's not just about grandparents, but the whole experience of being from 2 cultures. Also don't forget if your DC is lucky they might be able to have dual nationality - Freedom Of Movement is no small thing and if you can speak 2 languages learning others often comes easier.

Be warned: Bilingual children often speak later, but they do speak and it doesn't harm them at all.

It really does enrich their lives.

we do it because my family, whilst speaking good English, don’t feel confident and we want our son to have a good relationship with my family. You lose out on your identity if you can’t speak the language.

@smemorata I would say that is a bit of a broad statement to say bilingualism isn't valued in Italy. It definitely depends on the family background! I am Italian and never thought it was not valuable! So much so that I am raising my daughter bilingual (my husband is British). I have other Italian friends living in Italy who were raised bilingual even while growing up (30 so years ago!) The issue is not much the fact that it is not valued, but more that it is not as common as it is elsewhere. This is probably because big immigration movements
from other countries is still fairly new there compared to other countries who have a longer history of interacting with other cultures and therefore different language systems.

I read youve less chance of developing dementia if youre bilingual.

Yes sorry @Abeautifulstar1 it is a generalisation but I did find esp among drs a tendency to see bilingualism as a problem. Also there has been a trend to regard dialect as problematic and as a result to encourage children to only speak Italian - which also influences how bilingualism is perceived imo.

You cannot really force him.

I think it's a waste when parents don't speak their own language to the child. Even if they won't read and write perfectly in Italian. If we have kids they will be bilingual. I want my child to be able to connect with my culture and family even if we speak English at home

I have very mixed feelings and very mixed experiences as well, very few of them accord with the 'it'll be easy, what a gift' type stuff I see on MN.

My husband was like yours, spoke another (far more uncommon) language but didn't want to fully do OPOL with my children, more the odd words with most speaking in the family with English. They have not grown up bilingual, even with some teaching of the second language. This is a source of regret to them but they also resented going to 'Greek School' (not the language) on weekends when everyone else wasn't, especially as they became teens.

I know lots of families made of different language speakers. I know quite a few where the whole family speaks one language at home, and English outside, this works well and mostly the children become great at English, although not all especially I've noticed if they were in another country early on in their lives, they have sometimes struggled with GCSE/Eng at university as it doesn't appear to quite flow properly. I have bilingual relations who grew up in a European country with mum speaking English - I thought this would be very successful but their English is pretty broken and nowhere near 'native' as some posters suggested, but I'm pretty sure if they moved to England they'd be fluent almost straight away. I know quite a lot who have failed with OPOL after about age 4 when the children go to school and the whole family tends to revert to English as the dominant language, I have one friend who has stuck it out and done an amazing job, the rest have not as the children are often not forced to speak the second language (the most successful OPOL I know does not reply unless they do).

I also know children who have heavy accents, no accent almost, know 3 languages, couldn't manage to say more than a couple of words ungrammatically after many years, some amazing once they went to the other country a lot - what I'm saying is it seems to vary by a) child and b) parental imput. If you have both working for you, it works great, but it isn't a gift you can just give, it would have to be worked at by your husband being on board to speak Italian at all times to your little one, and reinforced not just by singing some nursery rhymes but by actually making your child speak the language- either by the parent, being with grandparents and not talking in English or even going to nursery/school/extended holidays with cousins in Italy.

It is a gift, but not easy to give!

@notnowmaybelater
Sorry to derail the thread. I'm interested in what you said about there being a right and wrong way to teach bilingualism. I live in a non English speaking country and am hoping my DC (age 18months currently) will grow up bilingual. She attends crèche a few days a week where she is only spoken to in this countries language. Outside of that she will hear me speak it poorly at the dr/supermarket etc but my friends here and other children we socialize with at home are all English speakers. My DH grasp of the language is much better then mine but definitely not fluent and I had read you shouldn't teach your child another language if you're not fluent. We speak English to her at home and her English language skills are good but now I'm concerned she won't be bilingual if she only hears English at home and as she will go to a local school here when the time comes I don't want her to start with a language disadvantage if possible. Any tips to raise children truly bilingual when neither you or your partner are fluent in the countries language you live in? Thank you!

I have brought up 2 bilingual children and it has had amazing benefits for them - at school and Uni. It seems a real shame that your DP wants to limit your child's options by denying them the gift of speaking Italian with them. I have a US friend who bitterly regrets that her Hispanic parents failed to teach her Spanish in the 1970s when it was considered "low class". Many jobs now require bilingualism in the southern border states.

There does seem to be some uniformed assumptions that learning another language will "push out" and confuse the main language and cause troubles. The only time I have known a child to be confused was a family cousin where the 2 languages were linguistically very similar but grammatically different.

yet I used to know a 4 year old that spoke Polish, Arabic and Danish without batting an eyelid

My biggest tip for keeping the minority language developing as the children get older is for each parent to read to the children in their native language at bedtime. I kept reading age appropriate books to my eldest until she was reading a mix of adult and young adult fiction herself (she reads in the original language, which is what German DH also does). I still read aloud to my 12.5 and 8 year olds - 8 year old (educated in German) only read books to himself in German though he can read passages/ letters aloud in English. 12 year old started reading in English for pleasure about a year ago but reads at a lower reading age in English than German - this is what happened with DD too though until she was about 13 - she still read children's books written for 9 or 10 year olds, then suddenly had a massive reading development leap with the onset of puberty and zooms through both young adult stuff like the hunger games and maze runner but also my modern literary fiction now!) The eldest chose to stop listening to me read aloud when she started reading age appropriate and older books in English, and I hope her brothers will follow the same path.

Our eldest was born in England and my DH (who is German but properly native speaker fluent in English) "felt silly" speaking German to her as he felt she was English. This was among several reasons I agreed to move to Germany when the opportunity came up when she was 28 months old - it was pretty important to me that she be bilingual...

@Continentalmama I would say you need to continue speaking in English at home but make sure she mixes with plenty of people who speak the local language too.

Linguistically, it is difficult to raise a child bilingually in a “monolingual” environment like England. It also takes a lot of effort on both parents’ part: specifically you would need to both agree that (say) you only speak English while your DC is in earshot and your DP only speak Italian. As soon as your DC works out that both you and DP speak English she’ll stick to English unless she has reason to use Italian

This hasn't been true in my case at all! My 2.5 year old is bilingual and I am in the DH's situation in this case - speaking the minority language (English in my case) in my husband's country.

It hasn't been difficult or taken a lot of effort! Also, it's not true that bilingual children will take longer to start talking. DS started talking at 11 months and is very advanced linguistically at 2.5.

I only speak English to him, and my husband speaks a mixture, probably 70/30 his own language. DS picked up English first, and it's still his better language, but he's almost as good in the second language now and I'm sure once he starts going to nursery it will improve even further! He knows that we both speak both languages and he's able to ask for vocabulary he's missing in one or the other language.

Sounds like your DH really needs to do some reading into bilingualism and the advantages it can have for children. I just don't understand why you wouldn't!