To agree with JK Rowling?

[StraightenUpAndFryRight]

mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1207646162813100033

‘Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?
#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill’

She now you are saying that calling a man “he” is the same as using a racist slur? Really these kind of leaps do your cause no good at all.

I’m with Maya

Calling a man he is not akin to a racist slur.

Maya has stated that she would not misgender anyone to their face, out of courtesy.

That isn't what she was quoted as saying in the judgement, though. In the judgement she said she 'may' use a preferred pronoun out of courtesy, but that she 'reserved the right' not to. That's a very different message to the one you're quoting.

reverse ferret gosh my new name for my DH

That isn't what she was quoted as saying in the judgement, though. In the judgement she said she 'may' use a preferred pronoun out of courtesy, but that she 'reserved the right' not to. That's a very different message to the one you're quoting.

That is nail on the head the difference between compelled speech and courtesy.

Except that’s not what she said... she said she reserved the right to misgender trans people.

No, she reserves the right to talk about sex.

She worked for a think tank that claims to campaign for equality. How can you campaign for equality if you can't talk about sex?

Both Gregor Murray and I can say that we are non-binary, but the fact that we are not the same sex means that things like access to contraption don't impact on us both equally. How can you talk about sexism if you can't talk about sex?

She now you are saying that calling a man “he” is the same as using a racist slur? Really these kind of leaps do your cause no good at all.

No. I haven't said that. Inventing things that people who disagree with you have said, in order to bolster your argument, does your cause no good at all.

I gave another example of hypothetical 'compelled' speech. Giving another example of something isn't saying that the two things are the same. For example -

Christmas and Easter are both examples of religious festivals
Christmas and Easter are the same

Any person of reasonable comprehension levels would understand that those two statements don't mean the same thing at all.

That is nail on the head the difference between compelled speech and courtesy.

Also the difference between truth and lies.

Is it 'compelled speech' if someone is expected to refer to a person's ethic origin using their preferred term, rather than referring to them by a racist slur, for example?

Wuh?

How is calling a male 'he' in any way comparable to using a racist slur to describe someone who is BAME? 😂

PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind I refer you to my post above.

Thanks @PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind for quoting word for word what you said @Nunsnetting.

Can you explain what parallel you're making in that sentence then seeing as I misrepresented your meaning?

So do you think the two are comparable or not? And if not, why use it as an example?

Christmas and Easter are both examples of religious festivals*
Christmas and Easter are the same*

Not entirely. They are both festivals but entirely different ones.

It’s like saying

Men and women are humans
Men and woman are the same

Both Gregor Murray and I can say that we are non-binary, but the fact that we are not the same sex means that things like access to contraption don't impact on us both equally. How can you talk about sexism if you can't talk about sex?

This is it in a nutshell isn't it?

YANBU OP.

I use preferred pronouns as a courtesy. I reserve the right to remove that courtesy if someone behaves like a fucking great twat badger (Gregor Murray, J Yaniv) or commits acts of violence against women and girls - or men for that matter (Karen White, Davina Ayrton, Lauren Jeska, Lisa Hauxwell, Clare Darbyshire, etc. etc. etc).

The act of courtesy is a little white lie to make a fellow human being feel comfortable about themselves. Like writing "Rev. Bloggs" on my friend's envelope, even though I don't believe in God. I don't actually believe it. Nor do I have to in order to recognise our shared humanity and be kind and decent. Being kind and decent doesn't mean signing up to exactly the same belief set as the person I'm talking to.

Clymene

I don't really know how to put it in terms that are any simpler.

In a 'democratic society' there are some things that it is regarded as unacceptable to say because they are offensive or hurtful to others.

There are numerous examples of things that might be offensive, to varying degrees and to various people. Racial slurs are one example. Misgendering is another. Misogynistic slurs would be a third example.

Sometimes offence might be caused unintentionally/accidentally - that can't be helped. However, if someone states it is their intention to misgender if they choose to, the defence that it is accidental can't be applied.

Is it 'compelled speech' if someone is expected to refer to a person's ethic origin using their preferred term, rather than referring to them by a racist slur, for example?

Not really comparable. The EA specifically allows for instances where it is legal to discriminate according to biological sex, even when somebody holds a GRC.

In this context sex isn't a slur. It's just a statement of fact like nationality or blood type.

Agree.

I agree utterly and completely.
#IStandWithMaya

Of course she is right

Not entirely. They are both festivals but entirely different ones.

That was exactly and precisely - word for word - the point I was making! I'm trying hard not to get annoyed here, but either people are not reading the thread, or they have very poor levels of comprehension, or they are being deliberately provocative.

However, if someone states it is their intention to misgender if they choose to, the defence that it is accidental can't be applied.

But, for the umpteenth time on this thread, Maya has stated that she would not deliberately misgender a particular, named individual person she was interacting with, out of courtesy. She merely reserved the right to discuss her views on it being a matter of fact that human beings are sexually dimorphic, and the implications of those views on politics and women's rights.

Out of interest, Nuns do you believe it is actually possible to change sex? I mean, literally change sex, not request to be "treated as if they were a member of the opposite sex".

A racist slur though just causes offence in one direction as far as I can see, whereas saying someone is a woman when he is a man is part of the issue that is taking rights away from me that as a survivor of multiple forms of male violence and abuse are critically important to my wellbeing. It does harm me as a woman too not just the trans person. Also I find it very difficult to lie about anything at all so it causes me distress to be forced to call a man a woman when I know he's not.

I agree with JK