It’s amazing what people accept as just the way it is

[Blondebombsite83]

I’ve noticed, especially in the run up to Christmas, that so many women of all ages accept that the majority of the Christmas prep is down to them. The amount of women at work who’ve said that their DHs are useless at wrapping/buying presents/ cooking etc. And this is just ok? We don’t have a particularly revolutionary marriage and my husband is far from perfect but this year he has organised our DSs main Christmas presents, wrapped a few presents that needed to go out early and would absolutely do half the cooking at Christmas if we weren’t away. He isn’t ‘helping’ and I don’t have to ask. He just does it. I could maybe understand if these husbands were only crap at one or two things but it seems to then become washing/ ironing/ food shopping etc. At one point do people draw a line and expect to live with an adult?

Nb I’m know there are plenty of women who claim to be shit at things all adults should be able to do, but I work with a lot of hetero women.

@Scarsthelot are you on the right thread?

I was chatting to my friend recently and I mentioned that DH was more organised than me this year and had finished all his Christmas shopping, wrapping and cards. She genuinely couldn't believe that a man who had a WIFE would still do these things for himself, and slightly implied that I was being a substandard spouse.
Division of household labour is another matter but I'm a SAHM so I see it as my job, but Christmas is definitely shared and DH loves it as much as I do.

I would say I do most of it but a) there's not a lot to do as we don't host on the day, don't travel and we both have small families b) I work closer to the shops than DH does and am a weirdo because I enjoy supermarket shopping c) I'm a bit of a control freak and d) the one thing I refuse to do is cards and presents for his family (usually means they don't get anything but hey ho)

If I ask him to do anything he absolutely will without complaint (we'll both cook dinner together and do a big tidy up this weekend) but he's a lot less bothered than I am about decorating and having all the nice foods etc so it's down to me if i want to make an effort or not. It's not something I get stressed over though.

underneaththeash

I get that. The problem with this approach is that it normalises something socially which makes it much harder for people who seek a more equal society and want more help and support for themselves to argue their case.

I am a single mum working FT in a massively competitive industry and get no help with Xmas admin (or any other kind of admin for that matter), from my daughter’s dad, from my dad (who expects me to host him at Xmas) or from the numerous other blokes in my family and circle who expect all these things to magically fall into place. I am killing myself to get all this shit done on top of the day job and being a mum.

You can ask whether you should change your family set up to benefit my “feminist agenda” and you can argue my life is not your problem and up to a point you’re right.

But attitudes like this make it much harder for those of us for whom the burden is very unequal to successfully argue for the equality and support we need.

Do you have daughters? Would you want them to enter into a family setup where it was taken as read that they would do all the admin and mental load just because their DH was the breadwinner? Do you not think they would benefit from a society where men felt a greater expectation to step up?

My OH lived on his own before we got together so he was used to doing 100% of the shopping and housework (I lived with my parents and didn't). When we started living together I did a lot of the housework as I felt it needed doing and although he would do it I could do it better. When I was ill I came out of hospital and the house wasn't dreadful, not how I'd have had it, the children were clean and happy. He wouldn't let me do much and I was expected to sit while he did the housework. I had to bite my tongue as it wasn't great but it was ok and the time saved was spent with the girls and me. When I was better and able to do more I realized that he was doing his bit provided I didn't keep bringing him up on it not being how I'd do it. So now we share chores and I accept that if he does the housework it won't be the way I'd do it but it would be done. I still do wrapping as you can easily tell which ones he'd wrapped (nowadays mine) as no matter how much effort he makes they look a bit scruffy and have most of a roll of cellotape.

(and he's a better cook than me (and tidier in the kitchen) )

are you on the right thread?

Yep. Pp explained women being controlling, away by blaming everyone else , for being controlling except the woman.

It's amazing how women arent blamed for their own on behaviour on here.

I do all of Christmas. But that’s because I love the magic of it all, and enjoy creating that magic.
I also do most of everything else: cleaning, tidying, bins, garden, diy, food shopping, cooking, sorting dc out. Dh sometimes cooks and food shops. That’s ok. It needs doing and I can do it. DH needs to unwind after work, I can cope better without and get no pleasure from sitting watching TV so it suits us. I’d rather have less of the load, but not at the cost of DH being stressed/ DC having time for homework/ friends so ultimately it’s my choice.

My DP leaves every single thing until Christmas eve, and over the years I have come to accept that that's just his way and try not to worry that his family won't get any presents. It always gets done. He's much better at wrapping than me, and also organises getting the Christmas tree.

He will do the bulk of the cooking on Christmas day, but cleaning/tidying beforehand will fall to me. I finish work tomorrow, and he won't be done until lunchtime on Christmas eve, so this works for us.

@Scarsthelot I’d suggest actually reading the thread properly then. Many women are “blaming” themselves for being the ones who want everything to be perfect. Absolutely no one is talking about abuse.

Husband buys, writes and posts cards for his family, and I do mine. He buys and wraps presents for his family, and I do mine. We will do the 'big' Christmas shop together, he will do all the cooking and I do all the washing up.

I thought this was going to be about underfunded schools and food banks. But hey a bit of a grumble is seasonal.

I do see this happening, and was in a relationship where this happened. He's now an ex. He didn't value me or respect me. He didn't care about me. Or anything.

DH on the other hand, cooks twice a week, more if i can't be bothered to.
With regards to Xmas, he booked us a table to go out, because he didn't want me worrying or stressing or missing out. Our kitchen feesibly can't have two adults cooking at once in it, and by the time he was expecting to get back from work I'd have done all the prep.
He asked me to pick up some wine for when we sat and wrapped the presents together.
He ordered half the presents, I shopped for the other half.

I'd say our Xmas is pretty 50/50 but then again, so is our general domestic life.

I work less hours, have more time in the home. We're both full time workers though.

So the split appears unequal, I do the meal planning and ordering the food.

I generally do more cleaning on a literal day to day basis.

But he cleans the bathroom thoroughly every Saturday, he changes the beds, he's quite capable of noticing when things need doing, and on the rare occasion he's home before me, he'll make sure everything is nice and clean to walk into.

I think he's like this because like me, he lived alone from being 16, and learned he liked a nice clean house. So he did it, and he's not stopped doing it.

We play to each other's strengths. I do the cooking at Christmas but that's because I love cooking and he doesn't. He sits and builds up toys with the kids, entertaining them while I sort the dinner.

We both buy presents and both wrap them.

I’d suggest actually reading the thread properly then. Many women are “blaming” themselves for being the ones who want everything to be perfect. Absolutely no one is talking about abuse.

Apart from the post that says the women who are controlling are controlling because society blames them if Christmas isn't perfect?

Maybe you need to read the thread?

Which still has nothing to do with abuse.

Christmas is at the wrong time of year for my DH and he can't do anything in the last 5 weeks before Christmas as school is MENTAL.

He pulls his weight the rest of the year and knows he's of no use to me.

He can't shop or wait in for parcels - in short he can't do anything between 6am and 10pm or at weekends because he has the UCAS references to write. We have literally not been out the house at weekends since October.

In the summer he does everything 🤷‍♀️

Which still has nothing to do with abuse.

Being controlling has nothing to do with abuse? Ok, then

My Dad used to do everything. He'd buy the presents, write most of the cards, wrap the presents, do the food shop and cook the dinner.

When I was married my ex DH and I would shop together, wrap together and cook Christmas dinner together. I'd normally write the cards but only because my handwriting was better.

Haven't rtft so it's probably been said a lot but there's such a pressure on the 'big Day' to be perfect a lot of the time, particularly when it's centred around children. Even if women gave their husbands a list and sat back, a lot that I know wouldn't trust them to do any of it 'properly' (i.e. the way they would do it).

I also think that MILs expect the wives to do the majority of the legwork judging by some of the threads I read on here, which adds to the dynamic.

He works 9-5, and does the 'household admin' (moving a set amount of money from one bank account to another because he refuses to set up a direct debit). I do everything else. He swears blind it is equal and if I want him to 'help' with anything I only need ask. I hate having to ask. Apparently that's fair!

I don't so much mind taking the lions share on for Christmas, I enjoy thinking of nice presents for ds and sourcing, wrapping, decorating etc. But I do resent having to tell him a million times what we have bought for ds, or which items he is getting for Christmas and which for his early January birthday and him still not have a clue.

I do resent having to ask him to do certain jobs about the house because he hasn't noticed.

And I really bloody resent him saying 'when was the last time you did xxx job?' like who the f*ck does he think has been doing it in the 6 months (or there abouts) since he last did it?

I do most things, admin, most of the housework etc because DH has a chronic health condition, works full time and struggles with that tbh. He doesn't do nothing at all, could probably do a little more, but it's tricky judging it.

He does all Christmas shopping for his side of the family though and I sort out my side. There's no way I'd do his present buying for him outside of emergencies.

I 95% of the Christmas stuff in our family, which is fair enough as my husband works many more hours then I do and I am comfortable with the arrangement.

I sometimes think even in a marriage where partners work close to the same amount of hours that it's more logical to play to your strengths. I'm 'good' at Christmas stuff and I'd still do all of it if we worked even hours. My husband is good at other things and he takes responsibility for that.

From what I've seen on Mumsnet, it seems that a lot of pressure on women comes from outside of their immediate families, from their siblings, parents or in-laws.

It does work for some families though. I work
now, so everything is divided pretty evenly - probably
Leaning towards him being the one doing most things to be honest because when I'm
not working I'm feeding a baby (which he can't do). However, when I was a stay at home mum and he worked full time, I did the vast majority of stuff because by the time he got home, I could have done everything and relaxed for an hour. I wish I didn't have to work because to be honest, I really don't care about doing most of it myself. I'm certainly not trapped or afraid. As long as I don't have to ever faff about with the bins
And the car, I'm
Quite happy.

And going back to the topic of Christmas (I posted too soon!) - I've arranged all the presents, wrapping and shopping. He will do the cooking. It works for us!

@LisaSimpsonsbff
Unless you have the world's oiliest bike and the world's cleanest car, I think it's very unlikely that he spends all the time you spend on laundry doing that. Which is one problem with the 'pink tasks, blue tasks' envy model - the tasks 'for women' are the daily drudgery, the ones 'for men' are occasional. There is no household in which the gutters get cleared or the bins get put out (which takes seconds! I'm always surprised people even include it as household labour!) as often as food gets cooked.

Well maybe, but for me, shoving a load of laundry in the machine is a fairly automatic task. I can iron whilst watching dross on tv. Cooking can sometimes be tedious on the average week night, but if I cook, I get to eat what I fancy. DH is appreciative of whatever is placed in front of him.

We have an old house and big garden, he maintains it all, noticing things that wouldn’t even occur to me like repointing the front wall last weekend. He researches how to do the random tasks that need doing and gets tools and parts to do it. He deals with house and car admin. He organises his flexi time to be in for workmen etc. I’m more than capable of these tasks, but I’m really glad I don’t have to bother thinking about them.

I enjoy Christmas and go overboard, even if it is exhausting. I love choosing exciting, thoughtful gifts for all of our nieces and nephews on both sides, but he wouldn’t have a clue as he rarely spends time with children (we don’t have any). He is always appreciative of this and loves watching them open ‘our’ presents and enjoys playing with them. The vast majority of the Christmas work I do is for my class and he isn’t even involved anyway.

I’m aware that we often fulfil gender stereotypes in our marriage, but he isn’t a Neanderthal who is unable to help out when I need/want. I’m not a bedraggled and worn out housewife. We play to our strengths and interests.