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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Boris Watch - Thread 1

488 replies

chomalungma · 17/12/2019 19:11

Well, it's been done for Trump since he got elected.
No doubt some people will complain it's on AIBU - but it's a place with traffic.

So let's use this to keep an eye on the changes under Boris.

First Thing:

Boris introduces clause in the withdrawal agreement so the UK must leave with WTO rules if there is no trade agreement with the EU by the end of 2020

www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/17/pound-slides-to-pre-election-levels-in-wake-of-bid-to-outlaw-brexit-extension

Feel free to comment and add things that you notice changing. The Trump threads are at 97 now.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
ListeningQuietly · 20/12/2019 22:23

Labour are no longer the party of workers
that are ruled by Union bosses on > £80k
and spads on £100k

Tories were never the party of business
they are the party of rentiers and spivs

Tony Blair tried to be the party of actual trading business
maybe that is where the Libdems could focus

  • self employed
  • small business
  • entrepeneurs
their staff their suppliers ie where the taxed money in the UK is made
Jason118 · 20/12/2019 22:39

I've just read @Ibiza2015 post and I'm no raving leftie elite but it still makes no sense to blame EU membership on either a: being forgotten by labour, or b: being ignored by the elite. The elite always ignore the people, they just fool them into getting their way. A lot of anger in that post directed seemingly at people who have no power to do anything about it. Very odd.

Aryaneedle · 20/12/2019 22:39

It's a massive shame that this thread is being derailed.

Why do we have to always go back to what the opposition are or are not? Please can we focus on what the government are or are not doing? That's the only thing that counts with such a big majority.

Aryaneedle · 20/12/2019 22:40

Jason - totally agree with you.

ssd · 20/12/2019 22:48

Sorry apologise for derailing, I'll say no more about Scotland etc.

Ibiza2015 · 21/12/2019 03:08

I've just read @Ibiza2015 post and I'm no raving leftie elite but it still makes no sense to blame EU membership on either a: being forgotten by labour, or b: being ignored by the elite. The elite always ignore the people, they just fool them into getting their way. A lot of anger in that post directed seemingly at people who have no power to do anything about it. Very odd.

See, now you're doing it again. This is exactly why you lost. It's just more 'Oh you're so stupid you don't know what you're doing.

I'll tell you why I voted Leave. One of the biggest things that influenced my vote was that the head of the Remain campaign publicly said that Brexit would mean that the wages paid to the lowest paid U.K. citizens would go up after Brexit but that was 'not a good thing'. Stuart Rose is the ex-chair of M&S who made his money off the back of people on minimum wage. Since 2005 and Polish ascension wages of the poorest have been stagnant, but the richest 10%'s wages have roared ahead. Because they had an endless supply of cheap labour they could pay their staff poverty wages and pocket more money themselves. Since the referendum that has reversed. The wages of the poorest are growing at their fastest rate since 2005 and the wages of the richest have stagnated. The head of the Remain campaign actually went on record and told every person on low wages in the UK that he wanted us to vote Remain so we wouldn't get a pay rise. I mean, ffs.

The second thing is that the EU's federal system is shit. It's jaw droppingly unaccountable. Large countries (which is what the EU is becoming) are notoriously difficult to manage. It's rarely successful and usually ends up as a tyranny like Russia and China or a country which accepts it's too unwieldy to meet the needs of all their citizens so doesn't even bother trying like India or China.

Only the US had had some measure of success. One of the reasons for that is that their two party system means whether you're a stockbroker on Wall Street or a red neck yokel in Iowa you vote for the same two parties and their manifestos. It gives them a real mandate and Americans can hold them accountable on achieving that. (And please don't say that Trump proves the US system is not working, his impeachment shows it is.

The EU system is singularly awful and unaccountable because MEPs are a patchwork of hundreds of parties. The parties are different in each country. There is never a single party with a majority of MEPs and a clear mandate to implement which they can be judged against. The EU parliament works on a system of horse trading and jockeying for alliances so if MEPs don't deliver against their manifestos they can shrug and say 'not my fault, this is the way it works'. All we can hope for when electing MEPs is that we can be sure they'll be vaguely something towards the left or right and that's it. Totally unaccountable.

My husband works in the construction industry. He's a migrant from an EU country but he is settled here, has been for decades. I used to work in a University when Poland ascended to the EU. At the time he had a permanent job making pre cast concrete. He had a pension and holidays, sick pay, paternity leave and reasonable wages. Within a couple of months of Poland's ascension His bosses found spurious excuses to fire all their staff and take on Poles for lower wages. Salaries in the construction industry plummeted. There are few permanent jobs left in that industry, they're all contract so he can be fired without reason or notice, he has no sick pay, no holiday (and no please don't say he has a right to holiday pay that was got around by paying the same wages but calling 50p in lieu of holiday). Conditions have deteriorated at his work. No more overtime or pay for bank holidays. Companies won't train up young people any longer because they can get a migrant fully trained at someone else's expense.

At the time this started happening all the wealthy middle class left wing people I worked with at a Uni were crowing about how marvellous it was that they could get cheap cleaners and plumbers and gardeners and nannies now these uppity working class people had been put back in their boxes. They didn't know or care that it wasn't just plumbers charging £90 and hour, it affected many people on low incomes already. These people who were crowing about it, they were unionised professionals who would go on strike if they didn't get a big enough pay rise or they wanted more perks. If they had to face the straitening of circumstances my family had over the last 14 years they'd be screaming blue murder and manning the barricades. And yes of course they're Remainers now.

And yes, not trying to ameliorate the effects of FOM on the poorest is the EUs fault because Cameron went and asked them to do just that and they refused.

Working class people have tried again and again again to talk about our concerns but we were ignored and the only thing Labour offered us was student politics from people who rarely get outside the M25 and insults. Of course that put us off voting Labour.

Ibiza2015 · 21/12/2019 03:11

A lot of anger in that post directed seemingly at people who have no power to do anything about it. Very odd.

Remainers and Labour supporters didn't think they could do nothing about it when you were going out on your anti-democracy marches, standing outside Parliament with loud hailers or campaigning for a second vote did you?

Ibiza2015 · 21/12/2019 05:31

for some reason, you feel forgotten by Labour

Have you missed the wholesale abuse and gang rape of children that went on under Labour in Northern cities Like Rotherham?That parents were literally begging for help off Labour run authorities and the police but rather than admit it Labour tried to bring criminal charges against whistleblowers.

A close family friend of mine was a victim of grooming gangs. She's not white. She went missing regularly from the age of 12 to be trafficked around Yorkshire and pimped at 12 ffs. Labour ignored this and covered it up. Parents were arrested for trying to rescue their 13 year old daughters. On one occasion a pubescent girl was found naked in bed with a known paedophile but she was arrested for being drunk and disorderly. Labour didn't just forget us, it mistreated us. When Sarah Champion spoke out about it she was forced out of the shadow cabinet,

Despite that many victims have made it very, very clear that what happened to them shouldn't be blamed on Muslims and they've also spoken out condemning Tommy Robinson and insisting he does not speak for them.

So yeah, that really does make me feel forgotten

TheSultanofPingu · 21/12/2019 08:08

It's a real shame that this thread has been derailed. The OP made it clear that it's a thread to keep up to date with the changes made under Boris Johnson's government.
I think some people are purposely missing the point of it

longtimelurkerhelen · 21/12/2019 08:23

The sales have started early, it's not even boxing day yet. Cobham sell off

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50874181

Aryaneedle · 21/12/2019 08:26

Ibiza you speak as though you are the 'voice of the north' and then berate people for ignoring others and not listening. I'm from Keighley. I am a social worker. I hear your anger all the time and I understand why people feel let down. But you are derailing this thread. It isn't about Labour or the EU. It's about the government. Just because you are angry about the opposition doesn't mean that we should focus only on that. This thread is to discuss who is in charge. You aren't listening.

MissGiddyPants · 21/12/2019 08:32

Yes this is a thread to moan about the government.

Peregrina · 21/12/2019 08:33

I'm also fed up with being told I'm right wing. I'm not. I simply voted Tory. Not the same thing at all

If you voted Tory last week, you voted for a party which threw out conscientious men and women of some integrity like Dominic Grieve, Rory Stewart and Justine Greening, and is now led by a man who is a known liar and cheat. Please don't attempt to say that they are all like that, because they weren't.

BeardedMum · 21/12/2019 08:41

I cannot do links but the independent has a an article about IDS defending US food standards in parliament. Whenever opposition raises concerns, it’s all rebuked by the “tired old leftie communists” argument.

lolaflores · 21/12/2019 08:42

There is such a slew of information all over the place with snippets if BJs little retweaking of things he is changing his mind on, pushing down his list of things to do. I often think .."am I the only one who sees this". MN an echo chamber? Perhaps in as much as there are people who have not collapsed back into apathy and are keeping an eye on what's happening. I am glad there are people who are ot resigned to this and will highlight the promises that slip and slide out of view.
Buried even.
I may be a bit late with this , but I have just come across this thread.
Thank you.
Carry on.

frumpety · 21/12/2019 08:58

Ibiza2015 the Conservatives have been in power for nearly 10 years already. How has your life been improved by them in those 10 years ?

Peregrina · 21/12/2019 09:01

Ibiza - by all means start a thread by why Labour went wrong. They could sorely do with knowing this. Many of their policies were good, so why didn't people vote for them? Many Tory policies look to be absolute shite for ordinary people so why have they earned your vote?

To be fair, Rotherham did return Sarah Champion. Unlike the neighbouring constinuency which didn't return Caroline Flint despite her Brexit credentials.

BeardedMum · 21/12/2019 09:05

Boggles my mind too when people blame Labour despite the Tories having been in power for the last decade and the only change is that the moderate MPs have left or been thrown out. I think Labour did try with their sure start centres and improved childcare to enable people to work.

chomalungma · 21/12/2019 09:29

I am sure there are plenty of reasons why Labour failed and the Conservatives got in.

This is not the point of the thread - without wanting to be the thread police, there are plenty of other threads on that.

This thread is a thread to keep check of what's going on. Not to have a go at those who did vote Tory -- I am sure they had their reasons, and nor really to have a go at Labour. That's a thread in itself.

The past is the past. We are where we are.

Now is the time to ensure that things are recorded.

OP posts:
chomalungma · 21/12/2019 09:33

For the record.

This is the Hansard Debate on the Withdrawal Bill

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-12-20/debates/FE5B9762-F298-457B-8306-98D2D1D3519B/EuropeanUnion(WithdrawalAgreement)Bill

It can be hard to find these by searching so it's here.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 21/12/2019 10:11

I couldn't help but notice in the Hansard debate about how one Tory MP prattled about Australia doing trade deals with South Korea and China. Yes, chum, trade deals with countries which are at least in your part of the globe. Not ones on the other side of the earth.

The only good thing about this is that it's all very much a Tory deal and it will fail.

chomalungma · 21/12/2019 10:15

I find the Hansard Debates fascinating. I read the original one for the referendum and it was prophetic on what was to come.

I wonder how prophetic this one will be?

OP posts:
BeardedMum · 21/12/2019 10:20

I worry for the environment with these trade deals.

chomalungma · 21/12/2019 10:23

Council Tax set to rise by 4% next year

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7815919/Council-tax-bills-set-rise-average-70-year-4-rise-double-inflation-rate.html

This is because councils are now able to add an additional 2% for social care.

"Families were hit with a pre-Christmas bombshell last night after it emerged that average council tax bills could soar by £70 next year.

Ministers revealed they would give town halls the power to put up the levy by 2 per cent in April. On top of this, they will be able to add a further 2 per cent to pay for social care.

This combined 4 per cent increase could result in the average Band D council tax bill going up from £1,750 in 2019/20 to £1,820 next year. Those in more expensive Band H homes could see their bill rising by £140"

OP posts:
RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 21/12/2019 11:06

It's a massive shame that this thread is being derailed

Yes it is

I voted tory most of my life as did dh, we are probably slightly right of centre. (as long as the economy stays strong and dh doesn’t lose his job then we will have more money under tory) but neither one of us voted for them over the last few elections

I dont care what people voted for...on a personal one to one mumsnet poster level. I’m sure they voted for what they thought was best. And i am absolutely positive that no one gives a shit what i voted for Grin

But ANY government with a huge majority could do with having a n eye on them when it comes to policies and i would like stuff, whether good or bad, to be in one easy place to look at....things get missed

But that’s not going to happen if people derail or goad

Hopefully the torys are going to be brilliant....but there is something dreadfully wrong with your politics if you ‘won’ and wont let anyone discuss the bad stuff and you are UNABLE to discuss the good stuff

And as we will all see over Christmas...a bad loser is a pain in the arse, a bad winner is worse