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AIBU?

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Original poster

UCAS utterly unfair

626 replies

Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 18:25

My third child is filling out his UCAS form and as happened with his sister he has to put the highest earner in the household on the form, which will affect his loan, this isn’t me it’s my DH who is not father to any of my children.

He is still paying maintenance for his own children and is not financially responsible for mine, how on earth is this fair?

OP posts:
Devereux1 · 19/12/2019 14:10

but the most likely reason is that you're not a great employer
Why is it the most likely, in your view?

Xenia · 19/12/2019 14:10

In the "good old days" only 15% of people went to university and the other 85% basically paid to keep most of them there so I am not sure that is fairer. As a Labour politician said on R4 the other day one thing he was proudest of is the student loan sysem which now means 50% can go and he is right - it has never been so easy in British history for the very badly off to go to university - with full maintenance loans of £8k - I think up to £11k in London and not a pennty to pay back ever unless you earn over £25k.

It is the people in the middle who have this shortfall to make of about £4k a year who might find it hard although if your child is away from home you are probaly no longer paying its food bills at home so that probably is "spare" in a sense and most families could at least give that to the child for the middle earner parents.

The cheaper universities are Oxbridge I believe due to very short terms and no rent in the holidays bu obviously most people including my 5 children could not get in - well mine never tried and nor did I but we probably would not have got in anyway.

it is quite hard to compare the past and now as so few got the chance go to university in the past and teachers and nurses for example and the police certainliy did not need to go and cuold study on the job. My mother did 2 years' residential teacher training for her Cert Ed and taught primary school every well from the age of 19 working full time. I am not sure she was any worse a primary school teacher of 6 year olds despite the Cert Ed rather than a BA and PGCE.

Devereux1 · 19/12/2019 14:11

I haven't seen any statistics showing all employers are finding new graduates are less reliable nowadays than they were in previous generations.

OMG. You really need to read and listen more about what goes on in business today. ShockShockShock

woodchuck99 · 19/12/2019 14:22

OMG. You really need to read and listen more about what goes on in business today.

Show me the statistics then.

Devereux1 · 19/12/2019 14:24

woodchuck99 Do your own research if statistics are what you're after, I'm not your librarian. Attend board meetings, go to conferences, mix in industry, read papers and articles, talk to people in business.

On second thoughts, forget the last point, you wouldn't believe any of their experiences or insight. Hmm

woodchuck99 · 19/12/2019 14:28

Do your own research if statistics are what you're after, I'm not your librarian. Attend board meetings, go to conferences, mix in industry, read papers and articles, talk to people in business.

Why should I do research and statistics to prove your claim? You are what the one making the claim so you are the one who should provide the evidence. If you can't do that I will just assume you are sitting in your pyjamas pontificating about the youth today.

JinglingHellsBells · 19/12/2019 14:45

@woodchuck99 You are funny Grin and confused, love.

I said you had no idea how she spent her time when she was uni- which is true- you don't. My subsequent post was about her life now showing that you can fit in training (which you questioned) even when you have a long day at the office ( or uni.)

she is working now- not at uni.

Trewser · 19/12/2019 14:53

At interviews now in a competitive field, employers are looking for far more than a 1st or an Oxbridge degree

Of course. Relevant work experience is great. All the volunteering and music is also great. What employers do not particularly care about is if the interviewee worked in a cafe all the way through uni or worked in a cafe in the summer holidays.

Seeing as all parents who earn over 60k are expected to make a parental contribution, are you checking the parents salary when you interview? Otherwise I am not sure how you can tell who has been supported and who hasn't.

Trewser · 19/12/2019 14:56

I think devereux is now trying to say what she meant was an employer looks at more than a degree, which any fule no, rather than an employer makes a random value judgement about someone without having any way of knowing their full story.

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 19/12/2019 14:57

This is a very confusing tangent.

Could everyone who thinks it is realistic to work full-time(which has to fit around lectures), study full-time, devote significant time to sport and sleep, please raise their hands?

I can see how

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 19/12/2019 15:00

Bugger, accidentally posted too soon. I can see how some of those can be combined, but I can't see how a student is going to do all four. How many fully-flexible jobs are there in a uni town?

Trewser · 19/12/2019 15:01

I think one of the posters here did but I've never met anyone in RL who did, despite knowing a lot of very successful 20 somethings.

Devereux1 · 19/12/2019 15:30

Trewser No idea what you're on about now when you're mentioning me.

Devereux1 · 19/12/2019 15:35

JamieVardysHavingAParty

Wine

That's me raising a glass, and by necessity my hand to your question.

My uni schedule was:

Weekdays:
6-9 prep / assignments
9-6pm lectures / coursework in library / labs
7-11pm stacked shelves 4 nights a week

Friday evening: sports

Weekends:
Saturdays: 8-5pm worked in shop
Sundays: rest/ study / sports

woodchuck99 · 19/12/2019 15:35

My subsequent post was about her life now showing that you can fit in training (which you questioned) even when you have a long day at the office ( or uni.)

I wasn't suggesting that she couldn't fit in training with a long day at the office or uni though. I was suggesting that she couldn't fit in training with a long day at uni and a work every evening. Considering that you pretty much said this yourself in the next paragraph I'm not sure what your point is.

milveycrohn · 19/12/2019 15:37

In the future, I think a lot more stuents will remain at home, and attend their nearest university, rather than their preferred choice.
I also think that there will be more on-line courses, with recorded/videoed lectures, etc and group chats in place of tutorials.
I understand that students in the rest of Europe usually go to their local university and remain at home.
This saves on accommodation costs, but of course, it detracts from the 'student experience', I guess, and as some universities are better at different subjects, you may find your nearest university not necessarily the best.

woodchuck99 · 19/12/2019 15:41

No time for socialising in your timetable Devereux1 Did you not have any friends?

Xenia · 19/12/2019 15:44

Most employers like to know if a student can hold down a job and turn up for work on time even if it's cold or they are hung over so certainly most of us hope our children can get some kind of job even if is enough to rule that out and encourages them to seek high paid interesting work as that one month waiting tables was enough to put them off that for life.

Devereux1 · 19/12/2019 15:49

No time for socialising in your timetable Devereux1 Did you not have any friends?

How really strange you reached that conclusion. When you studied, completed group assignments, had leisure time, played sports, worked in lab teams, had lunch at uni, worked.. oh sorry, of course you didn't.., lived in a student house.. oh maybe you didn't do that either... did you do it all alone then without friends? No?

How very peculiar you'd love to believe I did then.

Gosh, from my schedule, that's all you took from that? You really are struggling trying to convince yourself that reality doesn't exist, aren't you? Grin

woodchuck99 · 19/12/2019 15:57

How really strange you reached that conclusion.

I didn't reach that conclusion. I was asking the question as it wasn't in your schedule and there doesn't seem to be any room for it apart from the "rest" on Sunday. I wouldn't call completing group assignments and lab meetings or stacking shelves socialising but if you did that's great.

woodchuck99 · 19/12/2019 15:58

Gosh, from my schedule, that's all you took from that? You really are struggling trying to convince yourself that reality doesn't exist, aren't you?

LOL. That's not what I took from your schedule. I think you're the one struggling with reality.

Devereux1 · 19/12/2019 16:03

woodchuck99

I was asking the question
Negative statements with a question mark on the end, you mean.

as it wasn't in your schedule
But it was, wasn't it? You've just chosen to ignore it or entertain the possibility of socialising over lunch, during sports, in rest time as well as everything else. Why have you done that I wonder? Hmm

I wouldn't call completing group assignments and lab meetings or stacking shelves socialising but if you did that's great.
Yes, since you didn't work you wouldn't know would you? You missed out the rest and leisure time which I clearly stated, the sports I clearly stated and the lunchtimes I clearly stated again, just puttng them back in there for you. Smile

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 19/12/2019 16:05

Devereux So, even you couldn't combine full-time work with lectures and a hobby, then.

Devereux1 · 19/12/2019 16:09

JamieVardysHavingAParty
I missed the full time part of your question, apologies. No, I didn't work full time. Just about a 37 hour week which to some people is equivalent to full time I suppose if you want to look at it that way.

Why are you wanting to find someone who worked full time with full time studies?

woodchuck99 · 19/12/2019 16:09

But it was, wasn't it? You've just chosen to ignore it or entertain the possibility of socialising over lunch, during sports, in rest time as well as everything else. Why have you done that I wonder?

There is barely any rest time in your schedule. You only did sports twice a week and don't know how long for but that doesn't seem a lot of time for socialising either. Did you not have a go out with friends in the evening?