UCAS utterly unfair

[Iwasneveragoddess]

My third child is filling out his UCAS form and as happened with his sister he has to put the highest earner in the household on the form, which will affect his loan, this isn’t me it’s my DH who is not father to any of my children.

He is still paying maintenance for his own children and is not financially responsible for mine, how on earth is this fair?

Agree that halls of residence are ridiculously expensive but actually these halls are primarily aimed at and occupied by the international upper/middle class cohort. Domestic middle class students aren't considered in the pricing and tbh they're a bit daft if they take accommodation there.

As for parental financial support, the old grants system was set up with this in mind, the only difference being that students used to be able to claim housing benefit in the summer which still doesn't amount to an expectation that they be financially self sufficient.

As for parental financial support, the old grants system was set up with this in mind, the only difference being that students used to be able to claim housing benefit in the summer which still doesn't amount to an expectation that they be financially self sufficient.

They could also claim income support in the summer as well as housing benefit. In combination with a full grant students in the 80s and earlier didn't do need to work for financial reasons on top of their coursework. Some did to earn money including me but they didn't have to. On average they worked far less than today I suspect so it's a bit of a joke that some people think it's the other way round..

I don't want to derail this thread, but a final point about parents paying for adults to study - it is very noticeable to us employers when a graduate has worked through university and been self sufficient, and those who have sat on their arses and taken their parent's money.

I'm sure it's useful for graduates to do some work during the holidays for example but I seriously doubt you can tell the difference between someone who has worked during term time and someone who hasn't.

Prior to this change, the lack of depth from Oxbridge interviees was always apparent. Generalizing massively here, their helplessness/cluelessness in the workplace was better masked

now I know you are talking rubbish. Unless you were a chippy employer who made it your business to find out who'd had a few shifts at pizza Express and judged accordingly, or you employ in an industry that doesn't value degrees, both entirely possible.

I didn't work at all, none of my friends did, we all had our absolute pick of jobs.

Prior to this change, the lack of depth from Oxbridge interviees was always apparent. Generalizing massively here, their helplessness/cluelessness in the workplace was better masked

Oh yes, Oxbridge graduates do so badly in the working world don't they? It's not as if half the country's politicians including the Tory Brexiteers you trust to run the country went there. Or do you think all those ex Etonians and public school boys were slaving away secretly in McDonalds to support themselves through university because their parents didn't give them any money after their 18th birthday.

work which needed doing which we have done, and we cannot fund DS at Uni

Who exactly do you think should fund your son at Uni given you spent your money on home improvements?

Maybe you need to sit him down and let him know his education wasn't your priority so he can't go.

Student loans and fees have been a thing for quite a while now. Why didn't you make provision for that?

You need to keep up. All is fine and dandy now- his bio dad is paying £198 a month . At least one adult in all of this has seen some sense.

That makes no sense as has no relevance to what I said at all.

The whole system is shit. DC would be entitled to the full loan because they live with me and not their highflying city job father. How is that fair? (AFAIK they don't claim it but have a private arrangement with him.) i can't quite grasp why people think it is anything other than unfair.

Trewser

now I know you are talking rubbish. Unless..
So, I'm not talking rubbish then?

you were a chippy employer who made it your business to find out who'd had a few shifts at pizza Express and judged accordingly
Absolutely we do. We conduct thorough interviews and we want to know if the graduates before us went through university leeching off their parents, or whether they had the self respect to work and earn and contribute to their bills, as the adults that they are.

I didn't work at all, none of my friends did, we all had our absolute pick of jobs.
And yet, you don't possess the ability to comprehend what I wrote before. I never said otherwise, did I?

I think 99% of posters here agree the system is unfair (though it is not UCAS who decides the loan.)

The point really though is- no one can change the set up as it stands. So it's what to do next .

Huffing and puffing about the system isn't going to solve anything.

That's why most posts here are about solutions.

And, as I keep saying, if parents cannot pay that does not mean their child cannot go to uni.

They can live at home and attend a local one.
Or they can work to fund themselves
Or they can delay uni entry and work , or apply as a mature student (higher loans)

Plenty of options. BUT most parents if they can, will help their child through HE and suck it up, even if it means some sacrifices or overtime. as part of being a parent. If you bring a child into the world it costs money. Uni fees for many parents are part of that cost.

I don't think that's a legal or fair way to conduct an interview tbh! Relevant work experience, yes. But to suggest interviewees are leeching off their parents is insane. Can't think of a single reputable employer who would do this.

This is one of those posts where if I told dh what it said, he'd say "trewser, you do realise half those posters are sitting in their pyjamas talking bollocks, don't you?"

Sorry Trewser that you seem to be very behind the times in modern interviewing techniques and assessment evidence-based practices. You think everything I'm saying is rubbish, I can't help you any more.

@Trewser At interviews now in a competitive field, employers are looking for far more than a 1st or an Oxbridge degree.
Daughter of a friend was offered a top city grad scheme based on her voluntary work, sporting achievements and work she'd found during uni holidays where she shadowed people ,all of which showed commitment, resilience and ability to work as a team.
It's about developing your personal qualities - soft skills. An OxB degree alone doesn't cut it now, not even in City banking.

At interviews now in a competitive field, employers are looking for far more than a 1st or an Oxbridge degree.

They have always looked for more than just a first or an Oxbridge degree. That doesn't mean they expect students to have fully supported themselves financially while doing a degree and to have not received money from parents. Your friend's daughter wouldn't have time to do all the voluntary work and sporting achievements as well as her coursework if she had also had to work long hours in a paid job during term time. A job during university holidays for some work experience is all that is expected.

A job during university holidays for some work experience is all that is expected.

Absolutely no, it's not.

all of which showed commitment, resilience and ability to work as a team.

This, and the rest of your post JinglingHellsBells. This is reality and is accurate in the approach taken nowadays.

I've highlighted this sentence in particular because of commitment and resilience especially. A major problem with today's Millenials and 20 somethings is that they fail to turn up after a short while, with no warning or notifcation. They don't have any shame or regret at doing so, when they get bored or it becomes too difficult, they bail. They have been encouraged to do this throughout their school years and through modern parenting. Nothing must be too challenging, parents and teachers will bail you out of failure, giving up is nothing to be ashamed of etc etc. Well, wake up call, it is. We want to see commitment.

Resilience, and the lack of it in younger generations now, is surely something which I don't even need to explain here. Everyone recognises that dramatic fall in it. One way of appraising it is to see what personal struggles candidates have overcome, their sense of self reliance and ability to stand on their own two feet. We know from the graduates before us, those mollycoddled through university by their parents are far less able to deal with stress and challenge, even the tasks before them to a good standard and within a timescale, than those who are more robust and stood on their own two feet during uni.

Absolutely no, it's not.

I mean that's all that is expected with regard to paid work i.e. new graduates don't have to demonstrate that they have financed their own degree with no support from their parents. They just have to have had some work experience Obviously other things such as sporting activities etc will also increase chances of employment but if anything working a lot during term time will be reduce the chances of those experiences.

Is it just me that really really wants to type "OK boomer"

I mean that's all that is expected with regard to paid work i.e. new graduates don't have to demonstrate that they have financed their own degree with no support from their parents. They just have to have had some work experience..

Again, absolutely no, it's not.

Is it just me that really really wants to type "OK boomer"

I want to type "shouldn't have married/lived with someone:

• when doing so would put your son at such a material disadvantage when it came to funding for university
• when neither mother nor stepfather could help make up the resulting deficit"

Not quite as catchy as "ok, boomer", granted.

Your friend's daughter wouldn't have time to do all the voluntary work and sporting achievements as well as her coursework if she had also had to work long hours in a paid job during term time.

With all due respect, how can you possibly know that? She currently gets up around 5am to train for her sport and then works a 12 hour day.

Very few students can work long hours during term time as it happens, unless at weekends, because if they do it shows they are not attending lectures but are paying £9K a year tuition fees for nothing!

I've highlighted this sentence in particular because of commitment and resilience especially. A major problem with today's Millenials and 20 somethings is that they fail to turn up after a short while, with no warning or notifcation.

LOL. If they fail to turn up to work for you have you considered that it is because you are not a good employer and they have found something better?

We know from the graduates before us, those mollycoddled through university by their parents are far less able to deal with stress and challenge, even the tasks before them to a good standard and within a timescale, than those who are more robust and stood on their own two feet during uni.

The graduates before you were probably the most "mollycoddled" by your definition as their entire degrees were financed by the taxpayer or parents and during the summer holidays they could claim benefits. They seem to have had no problem standing on their own feet in life though. The majority of those running our country and those on the highest salaries were probably mollycoddled in children as well by your definition and they also are doing well by most people's standards.

"Agree that halls of residence are ridiculously expensive but actually these halls are primarily aimed at and occupied by the international upper/middle class cohort. Domestic middle class students aren't considered in the pricing and tbh they're a bit daft if they take accommodation there."

My impression is that a majority of students who are at university away from home spend the first year in a hall of residence - is that incorrect? Obviously if the university can't guarantee 1st yr accommodation they may have to look elsewhere, but again my impression is that that is not that common.

It must be quite difficult to arrange a house share rather than hall of residence from the start of yr 1 - you want to know your sharers a bit, at least, before you agree to share, particularly as you're often entering into a joint tenancy, so liable for their share of the rent if they don't pay up etc.

With all due respect, how can you possibly know that? She currently gets up around 5am to train for her sport and then works a 12 hour day.

Because there are only a certain number of hours in the day. If she got up at 5 a.m to train for her sport and then worked a 12 hour day when she was a student when did she do any coursework?

woodchuck99 I'm sorry that reality does not fit the view you hope exists.

Have you ever considered that the reason they don't turn up is because they oversleep and are too cowardly to face the music, think it's too cold to travel, have suddenly decided that their commitment to their new employer is meaningless and a mate invited them on a holiday so they went instead, that they now think travelling 30 mins on a bus is too far and they don't like public transport anyway, that they can't be bothered to iron a few shirts each week. No? You can't bring yourself to consider these possibilities but have to assume it's the employer's fault?

Well these are reasons actually given by managers who caught up with the snowflakes and demanded answers.

There really isn't any point discussing the real world with you, you just don't want to believe it for some strange reason.

Have you ever considered that the reason they don't turn up is because they oversleep and are too cowardly to face the music, think it's too cold to travel, have suddenly decided that their commitment to their new employer is meaningless and a mate invited them on a holiday so they went instead, that they now think travelling 30 mins on a bus is too far and they don't like public transport anyway, that they can't be bothered to iron a few shirts each week. No?

Of course I considered that but the most likely reason is that you're not a great employer given I haven't seen any statistics showing all employers are finding new graduates are less reliable nowadays than they were in previous generations.