UCAS utterly unfair

[Iwasneveragoddess]

My third child is filling out his UCAS form and as happened with his sister he has to put the highest earner in the household on the form, which will affect his loan, this isn’t me it’s my DH who is not father to any of my children.

He is still paying maintenance for his own children and is not financially responsible for mine, how on earth is this fair?

Don't know why you're getting such a hard time OP. I think YANBU at all. You're not asking for handouts - you're asking for your DS to be entitled to a loan dependent on your own income, not your partner's. It would not make any difference if you were not married - it's DP living with you that makes his income count. From what you've said about your partner's life I think it's completely understandable that you're fed up. It's a stupid system.

BUT - your son will find a way. The maintenance loan that he's entitled to, plus employment part-time and in holidays, plus maintenance from his dad, plus an overdraft - and careful budgeting. This is all manageable and tbh in most countries students work as well as study. He'll be ok and you'll be proud of him.

Hi,

I haven't read this thread in full but I am a first year university student and I applied for student finance last year. I come from a single parent family where money has always been a big struggle,so I understand what you mean when you say that you don't have any spare funds to support your child in university. I receive the full maintenance loan. Notheless, I have been working since I was 16 to help finance my own way through college and then all of the summer holidays and term time to help pay for my university costs in addition to supporting my family.

Everyone taking there first undergraduate degree (which is what your child would be taking) is allocated £9000/£9,250 per academic year (depending on how expensive there course is) to pay for the actual cost of there university course. This is regardless of economic background. This is called their tuition fee loan. In addition to this, at the least, your child will get approximately £4000 per year - this is their maintenance or 'living' loan. £4000 is not enough to live of off on its own but its a start. It's normal to work in the holidays and in some cases during term time. It also (in my personal opinion) does as good and helps us to grow up a bit more. You're less likely to drink away your terms money if you've had to work super hard to earn it.

A friend of mine is in exactly the same situation as your child and it sucks, plan and simple. My advice would be that they have to get on with it. Unfortunately, it's a tough love moment where I feel that your time would be best invested in sitting your child down and teaching them how to budget and how to make a CV. Then it's really upto them. If they don't want to hear it then thats their choice; you've down the best you can and it's enough.

I will also warn you that it cost me £400 for the cost of bedding, etc that I needed to buy prior to getting any form of maintenance loan. If your child is dyslexic/dysplasic they will need a formal post 16 assessment to prove this. This is an expense that you cannot claim back and is between £300-750 per assessment. It's worth it but it's a painful expense.

I studied all three sciences and EPQ getting top grades in all four whilst working along side. Your child can do it too. Best of luck to you all xx

Im 20 and have been through this twice. My mum had a boyfriend of a year and a half who was £6000 in debt, drank his money down the drain and ALTHOUGH I DIDNT EVEN LIVE THERE, he classed as a parent and that meant he was meantto py towards my up keep . Well he earns £40000 a year. Meaning i got squat until i had my daughter at 20. Luckily my partner had the max loan (hes also at uni) because hes an independant learner. Else wed have had nothing to live on.

I think 90% of posters on here are spectacularly missing the point.

It’s the system the OP is raging about. The fact that as parents of young ADULTS we are expected to financially support them, to the extent that household income is taken into account for a LOAN application. Not a grant, not a bursary, a loan.

It’s ridiculous, it’s nonsensical, it’s in direct contrast to every other financial decision the government make. They leave education and are classed as adults financially - child benefit stops, they count in council tax calculations in single person households, they are assumed to be working and contributing to the household finances.

But they go to uni, not even living at home let alone contributing, yet household income is factored in to a loan finance agreement made by them AS ADULTS.

It’s absolutely farcical. I hear you @Iwasneveragoddess.

@MedicInTheMaking.

Aww you sound lovely.

Good luck

@MrsOakes99.

Thank you

This is why I got a lower paying job before my kids went to uni

That’s not the point though, they aren’t basing it on my wage, they are basing it on someone I chose to marry who hasn’t had a lot to do with the upbringing of my children.

Thats sad for them

I dont think people are missing the point at all. I think they are saying yes a crap system but based on household income so step parent should be counted.

And I have little sympathy for the view that partners marrying someone can decide to ignore the fact of their dependent children. If you really don't want to take them on, stay in separate households and marry when they are off your hands completely.

The OPs point is stated quite clearly. It’s not the wider issue of the system, something I could get on board with. She said

“That’s not the point though, they aren’t basing it on my wage. They are basing it on some I chose to marry.”

On this point I think she is wrong. When she chose to marry she chose to become financially tied. Legally they are financially tied and they are recognised as such.

I would get it if they had decided not to marry. I always think government (not just the tories) policy plays fast and lose on this point. They recognise it to take away benefit and support but never to give.

@Iwasneveragoddess I know it's late in the day to say this but your subject line is misleading.

UCAS is the organisation for admissions.

The Student Loan organisation is different and completely separate.

The Qs on the UCAS form about income are part of their research into demography. There is a growing trend to give poor students from poor schools more favourable offers ( ie grades.)

I'm a single parent on a reasonable salary after pension reductions (salary sacrificed) I earn around £30,000. I still have a child at home, mortgage and self fund medical equipment for my son at uni at a cost of £169 per month. So I don't have loads spare.

Due to my income he receives around £8400 for his loan and also gets a bursary. He works and saves in the holidays, so is able to manage comfortably on this.

I've been in a relationship for 18 months. I've made it clear we can't live together until both DC are through uni (at least another five years). If we did both would get the minimum loan. There is no way I could make up the shortfall of £10000 the year they would be at uni together. I also think it's unfair to expect an adult who has not raised your children to be financially responsible. Not to mention the pressure this would put on a relationship still in the early stages.

The way student finance is calculated prevents or delays lots of people moving on with their lives.

@Sidge It IS ridiculous yes, and I thought that when both our DCs went to uni. (They are now in their 30s and employed, gainfully.)

On the one hand at 18 they are deemed adults, yet parental income dictates the amount of loan they receive. It is mad.

BUT that is the system and we all have to work within it.

I appreciate how tough it can be. At one point we were paying (topping up) both our kids' loans so they could pay for accommodation because there is s mall age gap between them. We went from being in the black monthly, to almost in the red .. It was equivalent to taking on another mortgage. I had to increase my hours of work ( was self employed) and we had to tighten our belts.

Having said that, I have the impression that the OP isn't that secure in her marriage and as her DH is in the forces, he may be an absent step parent too. But that's a personal issue. Other step dads would want to care for their step children, wholeheartedly.

@Iwasneveragoddess I don't understand your outgoings at all. If your DH is in the forces, why is he travelling long distances by car all week and why is that not classed as expenses?

My feeling is you could both tighten your belts- maybe buy cars that are more economical on fuel, cut back on the food expenditure or holidays for a few years - AND pull together as a family. You seem to want to behave as if you are not married to him.

And going back to my original suggestion- your son, if he's a typical 18 yr old - will be costing you a lot living at home. Our food bill shrank considerably once DS went to uni, as did the amount of laundry we had. You will save on those.

Yes, unfair. My child was assessed as being overseas as his dad did not live in the UK. But I do. What the fuck am I? Chopped liver?

That’s not the point though, they aren’t basing it on my wage, they are basing it on someone I chose to marry who hasn’t had a lot to do with the upbringing of my children

So you chose do marry someone who isn’t interested in your kids and doesn’t want anything to do with the financial and emotional responsibilities of children he lives with?

That’s on you, not Ucas or anyone else. Like pp said, you could have put your children first and lived separately rather than have them live with someone who “doesn’t have much to do with them”.

Does your dh do no parenting at all? That must be shit for your kids knowing he doesn’t want anything to do with their upbringing, yet you’re financially broke from accommodating his kids?

Your issue really @Iwasneveragoddess is that you married the wrong bloke.

He doesn't have a good relationship with his own kids and next to none with yours.

I hope he has other redeeming features because I'd never have married someone like that. When you marry anyone, you take on their children too. End of.

He is away and out of contact for 4/6 months of the year, the rest of the time he’s in Scotland, the kids are off doing their own thing, yes they get on but he is in no way a “parent” to them.

UCAS is not responsible for any of the financial aid you receive. The government is responsible for deciding what are the grants and loans that you are eligible for. UCAS only collects this information for statistical reasons. UCAS's only role is connecting people to higher education. Please do your research before targeting an organisation. Many thanks

It's the rules, anyway I wouldn't want my kids borrowing more than the bare minimum. I have a new partner and between us we have 3 kids at university!!! My life is still way to complicated to live with him (and I'll get the ucas renewal done in May for sure first!) but mine only took the minimum and their dad tops it up (he also gives me an allowance to cover maintaining the family home). It's a known likely expense, I don't understand why parents aren't prepared and why compulsory child maintenance doesn't cover until age 23/24 if in full time education, my ex is fair, why aren't other men?

That's as maybe but he's financially responsible whether he likes it or not.

It's well known that the forces can attract a certain type of person. It's an institution and living in one can make it very hard for someone to integrate into family life if they are away and their family is left shore based or whatever. (They are usually reasonably well paid and all their living expenses are paid for when they are away so he ought to have enough cash.)

I'm not surprised his marriage broke up and now you have an absent husband for half the year.

The more you reveal, the more obvious it is that you married him, but he didn't really bond or blend with your children.

That's a shame.

And what's more surprising is that if you have been together since your son was 8, neither of you realised the financial implications of higher ed for your children. You have had long enough to save and prepare for this type of thing.

These are the conversations couples should have.

I do wonder why you are with someone who seems so distanced from your children.

My son has just left Uni so I may be slightly out of date but I thought there were three elements to financing this.

A: The tuition fee loan (£9k)
B: The student maintenance loan (£4K)
And
C: Maintenance grant (£3.5k).
(All figures are approximate)
Everyone is entitled to A and B but C is based on household Income.

C is not a loan and not expected to be paid back.

C is household income based as why should a student be financed by the tax payer when the parents are ‘wealthy’. Obviously the term ‘wealthy’ is subjective. The problems arise when the parents don’t want/can’t support their children.