UCAS utterly unfair

[Iwasneveragoddess]

My third child is filling out his UCAS form and as happened with his sister he has to put the highest earner in the household on the form, which will affect his loan, this isn’t me it’s my DH who is not father to any of my children.

He is still paying maintenance for his own children and is not financially responsible for mine, how on earth is this fair?

You are not out of date- it's the same and has been since mine were at uni ( 10 years ago.)

One thing the OP needs to consider if money is tight, is location and cost of accommodation.

There is plenty of info online about the 'cheapest' unis in terms of living costs.

Obviously, London is the highest, but there are some locations in the UK where student rents are much much lower than at other unis.

@Iwasneveragoddess Your son needs to look at all the info about unis before applying. Not just subjects and courses, but also living costs. This info is available in the unis' accommodation information. As you will know, in Year 1 they are usually in halls. Then in Yr 2 and 3 in privately rented flats and houses. He needs to compare costs, as well as fares home/ distances etc.

I thought ALL the maintenance loan was borrowed? You are allowed to BORROW more if you are from a low income family. There are no grants any more.

They're adults when they go to uni so parents income shouldn't be taken into account. They're applying for loans basically. The PP that said it's like applying for a loan with Barclays and putting her mum's income down made me laugh but it's so true. The government pick and choose who are adults and who are not! They won't pay child related benefits beyond a certain age but they'll take the parents income into account years into adulthood...

I think what should be included is any jobs they have, any savings they have and any trust funds they have in their name and that's it

I believe there are grants whatever your income leve in Wales however but certainly for England roughly outside London if the parents/step parenjts/ parent's live in lover with whom you live are not in poverty you will get about £4k maintenance loan and if not well off £8k. Some halls of residence cost £7800 even (my twins in Bristol) so someone has to make up a shortfall unless you live a home and unless you get the full £8k loan.

It is similar to the sysetm when I went were I got £50 minimum grant and the full grant was £900 and I was very lucky my parents could and did make that up to the full grant _ that was about 1980 although inm y day 85% of people could not go to university at all so a different system and no loans and no fees for the tuition)

Same thing was going to happen to me so I registered myself at my grandmas address who is retired so I was able to get the full loan. My mums husband had no responsibility to pay for me and my mum had a fairly low income.

Stupid system really as even high earners often don't have loads spare after mortgage payments etc.

That's despicable behaviour @theworldhasgonecrazy1 (spot on user name!) You were cheating and other people - namely hard pressed parents paying taxes - are paying for you. Aren't you ashamed of committing fraud? Not sure how you suddenly made your gran your main residence and not your parents. No questions asked?

This is very unfair op, I can understand your anger and frustration.

I have the opposite- dss is first year uni, his stepdad is a high earner so he gets the absolute minimum.

Dh lost his job last year so currently we are on a v. low income. We can't afford to contribute financially in any meaningful way, so suggested DSS moves to our address (he was here 40% of the time pre- uni and had wanted to move in full time for a-levels as it's closer to college), then he'd get the maximum grants and loans.

His mum said no. She wanted DH to continue paying her child maintenance instead- we'd continued paying while he lived full time at home- she'd also said no to him moving in for a levels- but had gone into debt to do so. DSS is working two jobs to survive.

What about his dad? If he doesn't pay Cm is he on a lower income which would mean your ds gets more loans/grants?

I know that this isn't the point of the thread at all but I'm impressed that you (OP), despite having three children and working full time while bringing them up alone, managed to form a relationship with someone in the forces (and away half the year) when your youngest child was eight. I only have one child and didn't have a single date until she was at secondary school (time constraints mainly). And that's not criticism at all.

I'm also interested that a PP said that as her child's father lives abroad, her DC is assessed as living overseas!! Did I read that correctly? My DD has finished university now - maximum loan in year one, less in two and three but she worked and actually said she didn't need the whole loan anyway. She was at York so maybe cheaper accommodation? Anyway I don't recall any questions about her father, but as he has no contact, I don't know his details or address and he's never paid anything, I would have been extremely concerned if she'd been counted as an overseas student.

There is some confusion as it depends on where you live. In Wales, the maintenance grant still exists and some of it you dont have to pay back. Think it might be different again in Scotland.

"You were cheating and other people - namely hard pressed parents paying taxes - are paying for you"
No, she will have to pay for it herself in taxes.

@Iwasneveragoddess

Thank you 😊

@JinglingHellsBells nope not ashamed at all. If I hadn't done that I wouldn't have been able to afford to go to uni and wouldn't be in the job I am now making a huge difference to the lives of children in care.

My mum was a hard pressed parent paying tax, as am I so I don't really see your point?

And no questions were asked funnily enough.

I think it's going to be unfair towards some children whatever way they do it. When I was at university they just went on the resident biological parent income and that resulted in children from actually quite wealthy backgrounds getting a full grant if their mother didn't work (as was often the case in the 80s) which didn't seem fair either. They changed the system to prevent that.

Ultimately if you have joint finances then your DH's income does make a difference as even if you pay out of your wages you will be able to live off his so you aren't in the same position as a single parent. You may not be able to afford it as a couple but presumably you wouldn't even if he was the father so the fact is the stepfather doesn't seem that relevant.

Even if they did just go on your salary he wouldn't get a maintenance grant as that is no longer available. He would just get a larger loan. If you think that is better why don't you take out a loan to give him the extra money and he can pay you back when he is earning? You could probably get it at a better rate of interest than the student loan anyway.

How on earth does the poor taxpayer come into it, if people register at a different address to get the full loan? It's a loan, that individuals pay back on top of income tax, council tax etc. Unless I am missing something?

How on earth does the poor taxpayer come into it, if people register at a different address to get the full loan? It's a loan, that individuals pay back on top of income tax, council tax etc. Unless I am missing something?

I don't think some people realise that children of those deemed to be on a low income are just getting a bigger loan which they have to pay off at not a particularly good rate of interest. It's really not a great deal so I don't see why people are getting worked up over the "unfairness" of it. Having said that I don't see why they don't let all students apply for a full loan now that there is no maintenance grant.

krusty, most people don't pay back the loan. You don't pay a penny back for a start if you never earn over £25k so it is more a gift of up to about £9250 fees a year and up to about £10k mainenance in Londn x 3 so about £60k gift for those who choose never to work or who pick low paid work or just marry and have chilren and never earn over £25k or whatever. it is a gift from tax payers to students.One man even used his maintenance loan to fund his fares to fight for ISIS.

One man even used his maintenance loan to fund his fares to fight for ISIS.

I know I shouldn’t but LOL.

It's well known that the forces can attract a certain type of person. It's an institution and living in one can make it very hard for someone to integrate into family life if they are away and their family is left shore based or whatever. (They are usually reasonably well paid and all their living expenses are paid for when they are away so he ought to have enough cash*

People who make HUGE sacrifices.

@MedicInTheMaking, well done, your mum must be very proud of you.

Op, there was a thread recently from a non step family complaining about the same issue of loans. High income house but due to out goings they felt they were struggling.

If you start making exceptions for step families (to be treated as separate financial entities) then there could be a case for why other families should ask for assessments on only one parent income. It would just be too complicated. I assume you don't get child benefit either since you joined finances with your husband?

The reality is Uni has always been something parents have had to contribute towards and if you have multiple children you are exacerbating the costs. I choose now to priortise saving for my children. I started very early on and whilst it isn't a lot it will help get them through. As a single parent I am likely to get support for them however I can't assume that the system will be as it is today.

It should NOT be a surprise that Uni will cost a parent money and if they don't have it then they need to consider all the other paths available, such as a year out to save, or go to a Uni locally. These are not terrible options and rather than rage against it teach your son that you he will need to compromise.

I hope this thread and the previous one encourages parents to think ahead. My thinking is that Uni costs are akin to paying for childcare costs again!!

most people don't pay back the loan. You don't pay a penny back for a start if you never earn over £25k

Most people never earn more than 25K despite having a degree? I appreciate that some might not but to say that most don't seems very unlikely. Considering that even people on minimum wage get 16 k it seems very unambitious to expect to never earn more than 25k after doing a degree.

I dont get the 6 kids reference. 3 are adults. Two live with their mother and so she will be financing them. Your dh gets to reduce his maintenance for his children because he lives in a house with someone else’s children.* Therefore there is only one child to finance.* You are not financially responsible for six children at all.

This is my confusion too OP. How many of your children currently live at your home at the moment?

@woodchuck99 I guess I can't speak for "most people", but the people I went to uni with are not earning over £25k, and we graduated 7 years ago.

Two of them are working band 2 NHS admin roles, one has done another degree because she couldn't find work, and another did an MSc and is now working as a TA. Countless others are working at the likes of Asda and Tesco, or did get graduate jobs but they pay £18k. I actually don't know anyone who earns over the threshold. I am in the north though, so £18k is a decent wage here actually.

(I have been over the threshold for the past 4 years myself, but not hugely so - £32k - so I don't feel that the repayments are too bad, as they just get taken with my tax and NI).

A lot of starting salaries are 25k.

@woodchuck99 I guess I can't speak for "most people", but the people I went to uni with are not earning over £25k, and we graduated 7 years ago.

That's not very long ago though is it? With time I imagine many more those people will be earning over 25K. They'll keep taking the money for 40 years now so I expect that most people will repay it rather than the other way round. Even those that don't totally repay will pay off a large chunk, I expect.