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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

UCAS utterly unfair

626 replies

Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 18:25

My third child is filling out his UCAS form and as happened with his sister he has to put the highest earner in the household on the form, which will affect his loan, this isn’t me it’s my DH who is not father to any of my children.

He is still paying maintenance for his own children and is not financially responsible for mine, how on earth is this fair?

OP posts:
mrsrhodgilbert · 17/12/2019 22:30

You keep talking about putting 6 children through university but this isn’t true. At least two seem to be adults living away from home now. Two are with their mother and your dh will not have to pay for their university costs. Your dd is doing an OU course so you have one son who is due to go. Is this correct?

revelsandrose · 17/12/2019 22:35

We have a mortgage, we pay maintenance and a few hundred a month on top, we had extensive building work to accommodate all the children, we have very high petrol costs due to the distance OH travels, we run two cars, we have high council tax etc etc etc we do not have spare cash and we live month to month.

So you are crying about not being able to afford to pay for one of your six children (you say he has no responsibility for yours but you are counting his?) when you earn £30k, married to a someone earning more than that, have a large house presumably in a nice area with a high tax band, have 2 cars which is considerably more than some people could ever hope for, yet still manage to get their child through uni, you need to wake up and get in the real world.

mrsrhodgilbert · 17/12/2019 22:40

I’m not sure who you think should pay if not your husband. Should the children of all divorced parents get extra financial help from the taxpayer? We have just put two dc through university, 6 years of BA and MA courses so I understand how expensive it is.

Original poster
Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 22:44

I am not asking for extra financial help.

I want his loan to be based on my wage.

OP posts:
Original poster
Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 22:45

And I have a car because I am an essential car user at work, a social worker.

OP posts:
Original poster
Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 22:49

As I have said. The finances, amount of children do not matter.

The loan amount for living allowance should not be based on the step parents wage.

OP posts:
revelsandrose · 17/12/2019 22:53

If you are a social worker I would expect that you have an inkling about how some people are struggling to even feed their children, yet you want to cheat the system to enable your children to go to uni without it affecting your comfortable lifestyle.

Original poster
Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 22:54

Cheat the system WTAF?

OP posts:
Trewser · 17/12/2019 22:55

Grow up OP. Yes its hard, yes it will mean you have to cut back but if course you can afford it

FloppyBiffAndChip · 17/12/2019 22:55

Hi! It's a tricky one and sorry I haven't read the full thread.

You sound a bit like my mum, in that her partner (let's call him bib; they never married, but he lived with us from when I was 10, and they were still together when I moved to uni age 18, though split perhaps 10 yrs after that) was very much 'her partner'. She tried to keep her relationship with him separate from our (mine and my siblings) relationship with her and discouraged any aspect of him acting as a dad.

None of us saw this as problem at the time, but looking back I think it's sad.

What would have been the harm on him coming to parents evening, showing an interest and supporting the family finances, including supporting me a bit financially?

I think my mum was worried it would be a burden on him to 'take us all on' and difficult for us to adjust to a new dad figure.

But the reality is it's uncomfortable having a separate person living in the family. It's a weird dynamic and uncomfortable for all. I expect with hindsight bib would have loved to have been invited to get more involved, to have had some financial responsibilities for us, to feel valued and included.

Your DH hasn't just married you, he has married a package which includes your kids. He should be more part of the family, and yes, that does include financially contributing to the family. Don't be scared of it. He won't run. Of you think he's the kind of man that would leave a marriage over this, he's not the right man anyway.

I think it could bring your DC and him together a bit, and perhaps be a symbol of how he could be more part of the family in other ways. He isn't separate now, he's their stepdad

ThemoonisanAmericanism · 17/12/2019 22:55

My two DCs both get full student loans. One of them also gets an academic excellence scholarship. I work full time.

The combined income of all three of us is £34k.

When they both come home during the holidays one of them has to sleep in my bed.

I think you can probably find a way of sorting it out on over £60k.

FloppyBiffAndChip · 17/12/2019 22:56

Bob not bib!!

Original poster
Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 22:59

Me and my kids are a four.

I have brought them up alone.

My DH is in the forces and away a lot. He struggled to forge a relationship with his own children, never mind mine.

OP posts:
Runnerduck34 · 17/12/2019 23:00

It's a rubbish system , at 18 or older university students should be treated as adults when applying for student finance and not dependent children. My DD only gets the lowest loan amount because of DH income, we have 4 DC and a large mortgage so don't have lots of disposable income , yet the loan she's entitled to doesn't even cover her (basic ) accomodation, it's a rubbish system and very unfair on students who get the lower maintenance loan and receive no financial help from parents, puts them in an impossible situation.

worstofbothworlds · 17/12/2019 23:01

I am an academic and I was at uni in the 80s. One of my friends lived with her dad but he paid CM for younger siblings that lived with their mum, so her grant was lower than comparable students. This was true then. It seems it's a long standing injustice.

Original poster
Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 23:01

My issue is.

I have bought my children up alone.

I married my partner of nearly 10 yrs 2 years ago.

He’s not that involved with my kids as he is in the forces.

It pisses me off, on principle that his wage is being taken into consideration over mine for my DS living allowance loan for Uni,

OP posts:
MamaGee09 · 17/12/2019 23:08

On principle his wage is being taken into consideration over yours because In the eyes of the law you are a family, you have joint income, the law couldn’t care less that he works away or that he doesn’t pay towards your children, by being married and being a family then he does!

mrsrhodgilbert · 17/12/2019 23:15

You have twice mentioned that if you pay for your son to go to university you have to make the same offer to the five other children. That’s just not true, three have left home and two live with their mother. You have one child who needs some help now. He will get the minimum loan and will have to get the cheapest accommodation, a part time job during term time and more work in the holidays, maybe his dad could contribute if he is no longer paying you maintenance. Getting a bigger loan is only going to mean he leaves university with even more debt, it’s not free money

Frenchw1fe · 17/12/2019 23:17

Would your ex agree to pay your son some money for 3 more years to help him at uni?

Original poster
Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 23:21

No.

OP posts:
Runnerduck34 · 17/12/2019 23:43

I understand your frustration but I think the reasoning behind it is that when you are married or living together in long term relationship then finances ( and everything else) is shared between you and considered as a joint asset or income not an individual one.
I increased my hours at work to help DD through uni and before she went to uni we were giving her a monthly allowance, paying for a bus pass etc so that money was also transferred towards her living costs.
Finding a part time job in a uni town isnt easy so any work they can get or savings they have will really help. Talk to both your DH and ex to see if a compromise can be reached. If your ex is going to stop child maintenance can he not start paying it direct to your DC to help with uni costs? As his father he should be willing to contribute and it's obviously money he is used to paying out so shouldnt be a hardship. Equally his step dad should also be willing to step up too.
It would be a shame if your DS missed out on uni because he couldn't afford to go . It is an unfair system , we have friends who are both medically retired but own several houses , their DS gets full maintenance loan , our DD gets minimum loan because of DH salary and yet we are a lot less wealthy than they are. As I say it's not a fair system but then that's life!

BerwickLad · 17/12/2019 23:44

I do get what you're saying OP and that you feel it doesn't make sense. As far as you are concerned you and your partner are separate entities.

However, for public policy purposes you are a household. The same principle applies whenever you want to access public funds, whether state benefits or student finance. Similarly you aren't billed separately for water and utilities etc. Because you're a household.

Within that household you can organise yourselves as you please but when you interact with public bodies there is only one way they can treat you. Because how you organise/see yourselves is literally of no concern to the people contributing towards said public funds who require their distribution to be consistent and clear.

I do wish that people would consider this before combining households when children are involved and, if they are not prepared or able to compensate for any gaps in access to public funds that come about as the result of consolidation, remain as two households.

BeardedMum · 17/12/2019 23:44

Yep it’s bonkers!!

BerwickLad · 17/12/2019 23:54

Well no, not really. A household is a household. Unless you think that couples claiming tax credits/child benefit/housing benefit etc should also be able to do so based only on the birth parent's income and not taking into account that of any partner. There are substantial financial benefits to running a household with two working adults rather than one - each person pays less than the head of a single person comparable household does for mortgage, utilities, food etc. And there are tacitly assumed responsibilities as well when it comes to children and entitlement to public funds.

Jux · 18/12/2019 00:20

But if your household income is so low that you can't afford to help him financially, then that will come out and she'll get a better loan. We have a very low income and dd got full loan, then she did loadsof googling and got herself a bursary and a choral scholarship. There were other avenue she could have pursued but they involved sports which are sip,y not her bag.

The same goes for your other 5 children.

I did start worrying about how dd would manage at Uni when she started secondary and itws 100% certain that was what she would want to do. Sadly, any savings I managed to accrue had to go on life stuff like a new boiler, a car (used, not new), stopping the ceiling from falling on top of us, bad leaks etc. So when she actually applied to Uni there was nothing in the pot and no way we could support her. She's just bitten the bullet and done it herself because it's what she wants above everything.

If your household income is higher then the amount of the loan is less because there is more money floating about. You do have to consider these sort of things when you blend a family. Did you really not talk about your respective childrens' education until now?