fairytale new york homophobia disguised christmas cheer

[Ontheboardwalk]

This is my Christmas song, Christmas starts when I hear this song. Kirsty MacColl sounds fabulous.

It’s all over the newspapers again about the outrage.

Shane MacGowan has explained a million times what the word faggot means in his life and this song. There’s no harm in the song

AIBU that outrage at this word finishes and everyone should all sing along together to a great tune

Cor..I still say silly old faggot..to mean silly old sod
Not very often I must admit
Probably silly old sod instead.

I vaguely remember reading that Kirsty and Shane were a little bit tipsy when they did the iconic Top of the Pops performance. No idea if that's true - may have to Google that.

I'd be more surprised if Shane wasn't tipsy...or blind drunk!

It's not really OK, though, is, it, to say that it's fine to ignore a homophobic slur because the music industry is also awful about women? It doesn't have to be an either or - it's perfectly possible to accept one group's feelings whilst also pushing for change on behalf of your own group

Attitudes towards women represented by some genres of music are hatefully misogynistic, but that doesn't mean we can't also support others who are upset by the use of hateful words against them - it's not a zero sum game. And as for Shane explaining what he meant- the use and meaning of words change (though in the 80s in the UK and US "faggot" was being used as a slur). It is offensive now (and I think PP saying it's not used as a homophobic slur in Liverpool is spectacularly missing the point, that it's fundamental homophobia even if not used against a gay person).

The media are there to divide us, by any means possible.

If people don't like the song they don't have to listen to it. It's not like there's not a zillion other channels to watch or listen to!

Ah I didn’t see there was another thread about the song.

I just saw the headline I posted and it annoyed me.

I’ve been singing it all day to myself. Their TOTP version was brilliant from what I remember as well. I’m off to find it on YouTube

I find it very sad, also always feel sad for Kirsty McColl and her poor family, 41 years of age, way too young to die and in such a horrific manner.

Some people just go out looking to be offended these days I think.

I like the song
I have played it many times already and will continue to do so

@Dowser doesn't sod come from sodomite? Like old bugger, all similar derivation.

There was a Ronan Keating cover that Bowdlerised it as:

• You scumbag, you maggot, you're cheap and you're haggered.

On Magic they’re playing the song with “you scumbag you maggot you’re cheap and you’re haggard”. It must be a dub, although it still sounds like Kirsty Mccoll, those words have a noisy / worse quality background though ; I wondered if they sliced it in from a recording of a live performance when they sang something different for some reason? I didn’t even notice it the first few times as the rest is the usual version, and it still rhymes / scans and fits the theme of the song.
FWIW my opinion is unlike most songs with offensive lyrics, it’s one that’s played multiple times a day at this time of year, in shops, on the radio at times kids are listening, right after jingle bells ... I don’t think it’s the worst idea to change it in those situations. They would blank the N word out in songs played during the day / in shops etc (although I know they don’t always beep out bitches etc, but I think that’s another thread...)

I personally never understood why they they arse stand. That’s quite a bad swear for a Christmas song.

Oh I’ve just read that “you’re cheap and you’re haggard” was the version sung by Ronan Keating.... hmm...

@Ontheboardwalk

Your thread title doesn't relate to your original post, and it makes the poll a bit confusing. I put YABU as I thought you were slagging the song off.

But I changed it to YANBU when I read the OP properly!

The song is AMAZING. In my top 5 Christmas songs of all time! And I am sick of the moaning about it.

My partner and I change the words to “you scumbag, you maggot, you taped over Taggart” when we sing along to it

Brilliant 😊😊 I'll never be able to hear it without thinking of your version

Here y'are

Spoiler alert: It's shit.

This is the Christmas story for the professionally unoffended.

The song makes me well up because of Kirsty McColl too.
When it came out it was an edgy "Fuck Christmas plastic" kind of song. A bit like Stop the Cavalry and Christmas Wrapping.

She added her beautiful voice to songs by people like the Smiths as well as her own stuff. Her dad was a famous folk singer.

It's a song that paints a picture and tells a story. I think he was channelling Brendan Behan or whoever when he wrote it. That's not sugar coated stuff. It wasn't supposed to be a massive mainstream hit played every year. And it's great that it is.

Ronan and Moya give it the Full Oirish, but they can't live with a girl from Croydon and a lad from Kent.

Fucking ridiculous. It's all about context and poor Shane McG couldn't be clearer about what the context here is.
Interesting that there doesn't seem to be the same level of outrage about 'slut' or 'junk'. Or indeed 'arse'.

Well seeing as the LGBT community has ‘reclaimed’ the word queer, it probably won’t be too long before they reclaim faggot too and label themselves LGBTQF.

Is there a word/term for when one culture (American) decides what another culture (Irish) actually means when they say that a word means something?

I mean, it just seems a bit off to me that Irish people can say that faggot means X and then along comes another culture who say, actually faggot means Y here and you must not use it in any other context because our way is the right way.

Agree
@DarlingNikita. I love the song personally

Listening to it the other night on Magic they used the lyrics mentioned below... first time I’ve ever heard that version broadcast on the radio

“On a Top of the Pops performance in 1991, singer Kirsty Macoll changed the line to: “You scumbag, you maggot, you’re cheap and you’re haggard”

What Dark Passenger said.

There was an almost identical thread to this recently and a poster there suggested "...you taped over Taggart" as an alternative line, from when she was a wee 'un and didn't like saying the original F word.

I now love this song even more with this addition