Etiquette of using parents in law (grand parents) for child care after separation

[justbeingadad]

My stbxw and my parents are very close, and I don't expect things to significantly change there once we're actually divorced.

My parents don't currently provide any formal child care, but do enjoy having the children stay over probably once or twice a month on average.

My stbxw is now having to find a job and work (previously a SAHM) and I am anticipating her child care requirements will increase.

I am concerned that my parents may end up taking on a more significant child care role than they'd probably like to (they are in their 70s).

AIBU to think that my stbxw should not expect to be able to (ab)use my parents kindness for free childcare.

Do others have any experience they can share? Is it usual to use your parents in law for childcare after divorce?

Her parents live at least an hour aways.

@OoohTheStatsDontLie

You're right, I don't want to take the kids away from her 5/6 nights a week, that clearly would be unfair, but also everyone constantly likes to tell me "things need to change once you're divorced".

To put it into context, before she moved out (but after she'd "left" me) I'd see the kids 6 days a week - there was only one day (2 nights) a week I'd not see them. Because I worked from home, I'd take them to school at least twice a week, occasionally pick them up, and do bedtime most nights. I've not been some absent father who hasn't been involved in the parenting of my children who is now expecting something out of the ordinary. It's absolutely killing me how little I get to see them now.

Also to answer your question I dont think there is an etiquette as such as everyones relationship with in laws and the in laws relationship with their grandchildren is different.

@lyralalala he said earlier how he wanted them more.

Dads just get a hard time on here. Children need their Dads just as much as their Mums

Her "discretionary funds" are the result of me doing a job I hate working away from the family significantly, your other thread.

Bit different to I travel a couple of nights a week, but that's semi flexible, other than that, I work from home. ?

@justbeingadad, what are you going to do with the dcs when you are travelling then? I mean you are saying you’d love to have them full time and you exW having them EOW or so.
Or is your plan to have them but to expect your exW to have them when you are away, still facilitating you and your job??

If I was your exW I would be thinking you haven’t thought things through at all. And are in denial about the amount of ‘flexibility’ you need.

This reminds me of a friend of mine whose ex decided he wanted to have the dcs 50/50 but was very careful to ensure he had the days when the dcs didn’t need childcare and my friend had then in the days when full childcare was needed so she was the one paying for it all (with a much lower wage....)

If the fact you aren’t seen your dcs as much is killing you, then fight for it! But also pleas be reasonable in what you can or can’t do. An au pair isn’t going o look after two young dcs overnight.

Nice work @QueenOfTheFae

If you've been fully involved like you say in school runs and bedtime etc then it's more understandable you want to look after them a few more evenings. It's difficult I guess because they wont be used to after school care while you work, and they will already have lots of change to cope with. However I would argue that maintaining a relationship with their dad is more important than logistics. And in the interim if they are comfortable with your parents, if you had a day a week where you had them overnight, maybe your parents would pick them up from school and look after them a couple of hours? Maybe your ex is (understandably) worried about money in the future so you could always suggest they stay at yours a night a week without reducing maintenance, or if you can stay amicable, if you can put them to bed at her house a couple of nights a week which wont affect maintenance either

Also an au pair is meant to do a max of 5 hours a day and not be main childcare so wouldnt be appropriate with holiday cover or overnights if you were away. I think if you travel for work you would have to be very strict about what days eg say you're always wfh Monday and Friday, otherwise it wont work as it's very difficult to arrange childcare for different days of the week each week

@QueenOfTheFae

Things have changed significantly since then. The opportunity came up to change roles and travel much less.

@OoohTheStatsDontLie

Yes, maybe her insistence of the number of nights is based on the financials. I've already said that I'd not change the amount I pay her (at least for 2 years) based on the number of nights, that's still only an informal agreement as not yet legal (in progress). I am hopeful that her attitude may soften once the agreement is legal.

1. She currently receives about the equivalent of having a £30k/year job from the child maintenance and spousal maintenance.
... I could pay for an au pair for a lot less than she receives in child maintenance alone.

I can't be the only one who would welcome seeing the financial breakdown of this. And, depending on the age-range, is this 2 au pairs with an optional night service to give full wraparound coverage?

If it is absolutely killing you that you get to see them so little now, and you'd like that to change, then there is only ONE WAY you can improve the situation.

Stop with the shit about feeling that somehow she's ripping you off. She isn't. It really, really DOES NOT MATTER in a family where one parent is SAHP who earns the cash. The whole set up is predicated on the fact that the parent working can fly high, achieve those career ambitions and AT THE SAME TIME have that lovely family life... because the other parent faciliates it.

For every sole earner feeling they earn it all, there's a SAHP resenting the fact that they've lost out on their career and pension and network because they gave it up to raise the joint kids.

YOU WERE A TEAM. You took decisions as a team. It was never your money any more than they're 'her kids' and not yours because she devoted her 'public/work' time to them and you didn't.

If you can manage to keep that mindset you will honestly, honestly end up happier. So you are funding the team still? Well yours was the earming power that the team built up, so yes. Eventually that will change, spousal maintenance won't be forever.

If you worked full time, even from home, she'll know the vast gulf between the level of involvement you feel you had and the reality, so to throw out that you could easily have them full time is just inflammatory. And the au pair comment -! The kids shouldn't be with you full time because she's their primary carer, always has been, and that MEANS SOMETHING. You can't have it all. You can't be the full time worker and also see yourself as 'just as much' a practical everyday parent to young kids as a SAHP. It just won't be the truth, any more than she could stroll into your home office and say, well, I could do this while they're at nursery, what's the point of you exactly?

If you can genuinely stop with that gut feeling that the finances of the team you built should now be 'yours' then you will see a difference. Similarly, she will be grappling with the gut feeling that your joint children are hers. You both need to realise that your team won't be disbanded for many years to come, if ever.

So you don't want her to use your parents for childcare? So you either intend to help her find an alternative solution or you are just in love with the idea of her life being as difficult as possible.

Holy shit, you'd rather pay an au pair to raise your kids than their own mother, simply because it's cheaper?

If you want to see your kids more, simply insist on 50/50 custody - assuming you can provide appropriate care for them during this time. If you can't, then accept that with their mother is the best place for them. Any money goes towards proving them with as good a life as possible if exw will be the main Carer.

Yes it's normal for all grandparents to be involved in their gc's lives, if yours don't want to or can't then so be it. Relationships are two way and they will also have to work at maintaining a healthy one with your exw after the divorce.

Please stop thinking that your exw is only interested in your money. I can assure you her children are the top of her priority list right now - unlike you who is focussed on reducing the cost of their upbringing....

Jeez.

Why are you getting divorced?

Does one need to ask, pinky?

She left him.

As for answering the actual Q, OP says that his exw is 'very close' to his parents, so what I imagine will happen (and it's what OP doesn't like the idea of and that's really what this thread is about) is that OP and the parents will continue to arrange stuff with/about the children all on their own, as they've done for a long time in their position as mum and GP respectively.

OP now probably feels on the back foot with this as it now possibly excludes rather than facilitates him - and he'd like to see stuff go through him when it involves his parents.

Kind of understandable in a way... but it's really just another example of what my post above says. The team they built doesn't just stop existing because they're divorcing. You can't undo stuff like this. So the more OP relaxes, and gets into the mindset that their kids come along with their mum and he cannot be 'against' her at the same time as loving and supporting them - he'll be happier.

@FizzyGreenWater

Thanks for speaking some sense. I think you're exactly right. I do need to relax and stuff.

I suppose I'm slightly bitter about the fact that her parents (divorced) only live about 50/60 mins away and yet her dad (who is much younger than my parents and retired also) has only been to visit once in the last 18 months or so. Her mother is more involved, but not significantly.

I then see my ageing and not-in-perfect-health parents stuck between a rock and a hard place of wanting to spend time with the kids vs not wanting to end up where they are providing a regular, semi-formal childcare arrangement.

@StealthMama

I've never said I wanted to reduce their upbringing costs, quite the opposite, I'd say with a reasonable amount of confidence, I contribute more to my kids than the vast majority. I'm currently stretching myself financially to provide the best environments for them.

This isn't about your concern for your parents but about your spitefulness towards your ex and the split up and your perceived injuries. YABU.

@FizzyGreenWater
How is that understandable? If the status-quo has always been that the wife has had an independent relationship with the grandparents why should that not continue. I would assume she has facilitated many things to take the pressure off the husband , maybe not... I’m assuming.
I feel you don’t like losing control of your wife. That she will have her own income , she can arrange childcare as she pleases. Your parents can say no and yes if you try to intervene and go against the status quo that suited you previously you will create a hostile atmosphere that your ex may decide she could do without and take a step back. Leaving you and only you to manage your ailing parents and their interaction with the grandchildren. Have a think about what that actually looks like. You need to think long term and short term. This is what is in the eat interests of your children. Your parents are adults. And your children are school age , as you say yourself it may only be for a couple of hours in the afternoon... bearing in mind this hasn’t even come up yet.
You’re overthinking and trying to insert yourself into situations you’ve no doubt taken no interest in before.

What her parents do, or don’t do, whilst frustrating is absolutely nothing to do with you.

You need to move slowly and carefully , make the best decisions for your children and ultimately if your wife dealt with all that for the last 6/7 years you would do well to give her her place.

Leave it between them and stop getting involved. If they want to they can, surely they can say no. No need to stick your beak in is there?

@sauvignonblancplz

I appreciate you're trying to be helpful and have made a number of assumptions. I don't know what other peoples lives are like, but to presume "...into situations you’ve no doubt taken no interest in before." and the such like is simply wrong and unfair.

The status quo has been that the children would stay over at my parents essentially for their benefit. They would stay because my parents wanted them to stay / the kids wanted to stay. Other than very occasional adhoc nights out, I'd never describe my parents as having provided childcare for us in the last 7 years.

I suppose I'm slightly bitter about the fact that her parents (divorced) only live about 50/60 mins away and yet her dad (who is much younger than my parents and retired also) has only been to visit once in the last 18 months or so. Her mother is more involved, but not significantly.

@justbeingadad So you are bitter because your ex doesnt have a great relationhsip wth her parents?
But she has created a nice relationhsio with your parents and you dint want that to continue?? Because what? Wen people are getting divorced, they nevertalk to the IL anymore? This is true that it os often the case. Because you have the parent sidelining with their chid and therefore will see the now ex 'as the awful person who split the family'. Is it wat you would like to happen?

Btw, if her parents re livng an hour away, there is no way they will be able to give childcare support to your ex whilst she is working..... regardless of whether they are younger or not.

Well if you are both working, you will have to split any childcare costs between you.

@OoohTheStatsDontLie, he has only been THAT involved with his dcs for the last couple of months. Back in september, he was still working in a job that involved long hours and lots of travelling.

Regardless of how much @justbeingadad wants to be involved, his ACTUAL involvement with taking the dcs to school or going to pick them is recent, coinciding with his ex deciding to split up....

I will say it again. If the issue s that you want to see your dcs more, then fight for it.
Dont come and winge about your ex asking your parents to privide childcare or how it would be cheaper to have an au pair than pay her CM.
Stop be a victim and try to get some sympathy from people on how awful your exw is. Because this is not going to help you spend more time with your dcs. IF this is what you actually want and is suitable FOR THE DCS (aka no asking at the last minute to change plans because you have to travel etc etc)

Ugh, OO

I think its quite sad that you devalue the attachment your DC will have to their SAHM after all this time and would prefer for her to see them only a couple of nights a week and have an au pair instead because it's cheaper. How sad for your children and how devaluing of your ex's contribution to their upbringing. Are you proud of your children? Are they growing up to be decent, emotionally healthy human beings? If they are fire setting, animal killing monsters then yep maybe paid help is the way to go but surely you cant really believe that a paid au pair is the same as the consistent mother they've had in their lives and who you have felt is presumably doing a decent job of caring for your children all this time. I'm not saying that you havent had input in their lives but I'm sure you know this isnt equal. You seem to be treating your children like things with no thoughts, feelings or wants of their own.