To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

[StormzysHat]

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

@StormzysHat no, the northern working class aren’t visiting homeless shelters in Newham. However, the point I, and others, have made is that labour’s policies are London and south centric. The northerners don’t need to experience that to know it doesn’t affect them. You calling the north stupid because they have issues that you don’t comprehend having not experienced them is the issue of this thread. It’s not to say there aren’t issues in London, of course there is. Nobody up north is pretending to know about the issues affecting London in such a patronising way. Also, media focusses on the issues of the south and London, so northerners probably have more awareness than you’re giving them credit for. Again, another way of just calling the whole northern population stupid.

If the Turkeys have voted for Christmas, they did that 3 years ago and have been doing it since. No one knows if they really have. If Brexit and the Tories really are going to be disastrous for the people who voted for it, there is only one way they will find that out, and that's by getting what they voted for. Endlessly going on about this, expecting people to change their mind if you keep telling them they really dont understand what they voted for is infantalising and pointless. As lots of others have said, people didnt turn to the Tories. They turned away from Labour. In their droves. Labour are just refusing to acknowledge this, still going on about how terrible Boris Johnson is, ignoring the fact that he may he terrible but Labour failed to give them the option to vote for anyone else, or anyone at all.

@SarahNade I get that but my understanding is the miners got greedy (I may be wrong, too young at the time). But I don’t think the miners / unions were completely innocent and Margaret Thatcher was an evil cow who was hell bent on destroying the north - that’s quite a tunnel visioned view.

You're not listening Stormzyshat Again, that's the problem with Labour. Well it's over now anyway. Own it.

If Brexit does all turn to shit, Yellowhammer turns out to be true and page 48 of the Tory manifesto implemented, who will they blame I wonder?

The EU, I would imagine.

I myself never liked Corbyn and could see why he'd turn people off, but, for them to actually vote for Boris? Like, couldn't they have voted LibDem instead? It's not so much the not voting Labour, it's the actual voting in Boris and his entire agenda that spins my head out.

Tony Blair and Mo Mowlam broke bread with similar types. It's what you have to do if you want to broker peace.

Stop peddalling this tiired old trope, there is a difference of leaders of party and a backbench rebel MP, it's funny how his supporters ignore everyone who was involved in the peace process say he did nothing.

BrainAcheRemedy

It’s hard to understand how voting for a party which are racist, disablist, homophobic, elitist and care nothing for our country is in any way in anyone’s best interest. It’s hard to not be gutted to the core that we have chosen this. Every single vote for Tory feels like a direct kick to my family member.

Oh, I'm sure those who voted remain will blame those who voted leave and those who voted Labour will blame all of those who didn't.

Do I blame those who voted for Blair for what happened in Iraq? (I never trusted him from the very start, so no blood on my hands!). No, of course not, because this is a democracy and we all have one vote, which we exercise to the best of our ability to understand the facts.

As I said upstream, I didn't vote Labour or Conservative (or the Brexit Party, in case you are wondering), but are you going to thank all those who voted Tory if it all goes much better than you imagined?

StormzysHat

I've already stated that I don't think insults or over-simplified stereotypes should be hurled.

So why use them in the first place?

I'm not going to repeat myself again.

Good for you

Read my updates if you do actually care

I'll give it a miss not because I don't care but because of your attitude.

but please don't just come on to try and shut people up because they hold differing views to you.

I'm not the one calling people names, and pretending that its a valid form of debate.

If Brexit does all turn to shit, Yellowhammer turns out to be true and page 48 of the Tory manifesto implemented, who will they blame I wonder?

Lots of Ifs in that scenario, and one of the reasons Labour did badly was because of the fence sitting on Brexit, for the past 2 years Labour faithfull have been ignoring the constituents that voted leave, pretending it to be a right wing issue.

It was Brexit, Corbyn and Momentum that cost Labour the vote, nothing to do with right wing media as that was countered by the batshit momentum online activsts swarming on anything slightly negative of Corbyn or Labour.

I think MellowBird gave a very good account of her reality, it can't be denied, because it's real.

Some 'historical' and current descriptions may attempt to deny people like MellowBird their knowledge. But the very large mistake of thinking that book-read knowledge is superior to experienced 'knowledge' has just been demonstrated as the mistake it is. Yet again, although it's been a very long time coming.

BrainAcheRemedy
“are you going to thank all those who voted Tory if it all goes much better than you imagined?”

Yes! I for one would absolutely love to be wrong. In fact, being wrong is my biggest hope right now

Fastasfooook - It’s hard to understand how voting for a party which are racist, disablist, homophobic, elitist and care nothing for our country is in any way in anyone’s best interest

Ah yes, because that precisely describes all those working class northern Tory voters, doesn't it? You need to stop this, you really, really do, because it will continue to tear people apart, rather than bring them together. It will achieve precisely nothing and you will only make yourself feel worse.

I described the Tory party as that, not all the folk that voted for them, the folk that voted for them were blinded by the lured by the promise of Brexit so they dismissed or overlooked the fact that the people promising to deliver it are totally evil.

@BrainAcheRemedy the voters might not be but the party is so that's why it's surprising they got so many votes! People clearly willing to overlook it to get brexit done. :/ it's disappointing. Also the ones who are normally labour but couldn't vote for Corbyn- why not green or lib dems? Although I suppose it might be mainly leave voters so of course they wouldn't support openly remain parties.

Like, couldn't they have voted LibDem instead

Most people didn't vote LibDem because, you know, it's a waste of a vote. They may as well have stayed home in the dry.

Why would anyone want to vote LibDem?

why not green or lib dems? Women’s rights?

The turkeys were at least clever enough to see that Corbyn's manifesto promises were not worth the paper they were written on.

Also the ones who are normally labour but couldn't vote for Corbyn- why not green or lib dems?

All of three parties want to abolish women's sex-based rights, and their members have displayed openly misogynistic behaviour to women who have expressed concerns about their plans to do so.

Also, the Lib Dems are not a left-wing party, so not really an alternative. I spoiled my ballot.

he voters might not be but the party is so that's why it's surprising they got so many votes! People clearly willing to overlook it to get brexit done. :/ it's disappointing. Also the ones who are normally labour but couldn't vote for Corbyn- why not green or lib dems?

Most of them went to Brexit, just like UKIP gained more from Labour than Cons years ago, you have had years to try and reason and listen to them to try and get the message out there, instead its been a doubling down of hoping sunderland etc goes to shit turkeys voting for christmas and or calling everyone thick and easily led by MSM, even doubling down in this thread after the worst defeat since the 30's

This really is on Labour and its activists, layering hypotheticals is not going to prevent Tories being in power for 4 years and you will need a better tactic than waiting in the wings wishing for shit to happen so you can jump out and say I told you so.

Whatever happens, its a win for the North because even if Labour do get in next time, they will not be able to just ignore them pretend they can stick a red rosette on a donkey for a safe seat.

A lot of people on here are still in denial and pretending it is everyone else who is wrong instead of them.

Hi HateIsNotGood and thank you. I used to be a regular at
the Arms until the undesirables moved in, I shall go and visit and take a bottle of bubbly with me

You think the electorate are thick OP, and yet you use the most hackneyed and clichéd phrase possible in your thread title.

As others have said, give it a rest.

I am a Northerner and would rather put pins in my eyes than ever vote Tory!

Also in the run up the last election, Lib dems was considered Yellow Tory's, I think some have a very revisionist viewpoint of the responses to someone being critical to corbyn was met with 'fuck off to another party then'

It's clear now, it was just a case of wanting people to shut up and do as they are told, we will be nice as long as you vote the 'correct' way.

The threads on here, like the OP has pretty much proven it.

It's not progressive, it's authoritarian