AIBU that an independent Scotland ill have to have a hard border to ensure the rest of the UK keeps control of its borders when Scotland joins theEU

[monstiebags]

Whilst I totally agree that Scotland has the right to become independent, it seems to me that they want to push though a vote without telling the people how they expect to fund themselves, what currency they will use and what trading agreement they expect to have with the UK. I really think that these things should be made clear to the rest of the UK before they are allowed their rightful vote - A weak Scotland using our currency could drag us all down with them and a soft border would encourage the continued uncontrolled migration to England via Scotland. AIBU

I don’t give any weight to the views of any Scottish people who live in other countries. If you want a say, live here, work here, pay tax here and vote here.

I’m much more interested in the aspirations and viewpoints of the people of all nationalities who live in Scotland.

We could use the £ but we wouldn't have a central bank to back it up, and no control over monetary policy. Which is a pretty dodgy situation to be in, and not one that's compatible with EU entry conditions

A national investment bank is currently being developed and whilst this is not a central bank i wonder if it could be expanded upon. Many countries who find themselves in need of a new currency have either pegged themselves to another currency in the interim period, but creating a new currency can be established surprisingly quickly. I saw stats that put it anywhere between 3-12 months. But, we could still stick with the Scottish pound.

I’m not sure what you mean about entry conditions? Hopefully not about being made to join the Euro. This has been debunked many times, there are lots of new members of the EU who have not moved to the Euro, it is not compulsory for membership. Personally I have no issue with the Euro and have no problem joining it. If rep of Ireland can do it so can we.

I'm sorry did you just tell a Scottish person whether they get to be Scottish and then segue to a "Tory governments" soundbite without taking breath? Amazing. grin

Nope, I said I don’t care if you’re Scottish, I did say if don’t live here you get no say. I did assume they were a Tory, perhaps that was wrong but I’m a bit fed up of people with no clue, regardless of nationality chiming in and apportioning blame on Nicole Sturgeon when it’s the Scottish electorate that is making its voice heard.

This is the mantra of the Tory party - tell her no, tell Sturgeon we don’t want independence, tell her no more referendums etc. Total disregard for the many who want independence.

The union is just that - a union. Equal.

The pound belongs to Scotland just as much as it does to England.

Boris needs to prepare for the worst, and employ a taster.

You don’t live in Scotland, It’s not your country,

I don't expect a vote on Scotland's independence necessarily because I am not living there.
But it is my country, I was born and raised there and would get a passport.

There are decent reasons for and against independence and as a future Scots passport holder I am interested in considering the issue.

I have absolutely no issue with anyone wondering about independence and how it might impact on them. I do have an issue with the idea that -

1. Nicola Sturgeon is the only person interested in independence and has cast some sort of spell on us.

1. That the SNP/sturgeon is damaging Scotland. I was shocked during the general election debates to learn how very little the people of England get and expect from gov. The SNP mitigate a range of welfare policies, provide a whole range of services you would pay for in England and do it with the block grant, and stay in budget.

It would be interesting if people who didn't live in Scotland had a long hard think about how they provide those things and stay in budget. It also makes you think about the fact the block grant is only about half the money sent to UK gov. the UK gov get to spend the rest on all sorts of things that don't benefit us, overspend, estimate the figures, then claim we owe them more money.

The EU wouldn’t want anything to do with an independent Scotland.....

The EU said last time that Scotland wouldn't be guaranteed membership. Would Scots in England, Wales and NI have to apply to stay here, ditto the reverse in Scotland?

I'd love to see Scotland leave the U.K. if it's what the Scots want.

I'm not sure how it would survive alone, though. There's no chance of joining the EU with such a huge structural deficit, and without the vast sums of extra money which Scotland receives via the Barnett formula there would have to be massive cuts to public services.

Once in a generation voted don't mean twice.

Why would England be responsible for the hard boarder? Surely Scotland will have to pick up the tab for any such structures in the event that it votes to leave as well as any other associated costs and its share of national debt.

Not sure about this idea that Scotland has a deficit - who says? On the one hand many people in Scotland say they pay more into the system than they get out, on the other hand quite a few English people say Westminister subsidises Scotland. They can't both be right.

Scotland would be ready to join the EEA right away as it has regulatory alignment with the EU (assuming a referendum happened sooner rather than later, and there hadn't been time for the British government to start changing laws away from EU laws). I think the EU would welcome Scotland (back) into the EU, not sure why pp's are saying the opposite.

Scotland could never meet the EU financial regulations for joining, ever. It would have to take its share of the national debt (which would be crippling) and would loose the money it currently receives from being part of the UK. Credit wise Scotland would be refused a credit card.

And they would loose Sterling.

Wow, lot of early birds appearing on this thread. Interesting that they know absolutely nothing about the Scottish economy or any facts relating to independence or what the EUs position on Scotland joining the EU but want to throw their tuppence worth in. 😂

Amort, I thought Scotland got more money than elsewhere because of the Barnett formula which gives more money per head of population to N Ireland, Scotland etc than England en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula

Also am I right that Scotland cannot have another referendum by law unless MPs agree and that is very very unlikely as they just had one and scotland decided to stay.

The SNP have stated that they will have to introduce a New Currency. They cannot keep the pound and they cannot (unless the EU change its financial rules) join the EU or have the Euro.

*Amort, I thought Scotland got more money than elsewhere because of the Barnett formula which gives more money per head of population to N Ireland, Scotland etc than England en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula

Also am I right that Scotland cannot have another referendum by law unless MPs agree and that is very very unlikely as they just had one and scotland decided to stay*

We send roughly £60billion to UK gov, the block grant is just over half of this money being returned to us. We contribute far more than Wales & NI so get more of our money back.

The Scot gov pay for everything with this and must stay within budget. The rest is kept by UK gov is spent on UK wide expenditure such as - some welfare, pensions, defence, HS2, refurbishment of Parliament or other infrastructure projects, debt. Basically, we do pay for some essentials but we also pay for things we might not want and have no control over UK gov overspending.

As far as another referendum goes, there is no legal document that states it is once in a generation choice. In fact, the Smith commission conducted after indyref for the UK gov states clearly that the Scots should be able to decide again if material change occurs, eg Brexit.

“ Scotland could never meet the EU financial regulations for joining, ever. It would have to take its share of the national debt (which would be crippling)”

We won’t be taking our share of the debt without our share of the assets. The assets are worth more than the debt. Otherwise the UK would be insolvent.

“ They cannot keep the pound”

Yes we can. It’s our pound too. But we will prefer to set up our own currency. We’ll take our share of the reserves from the treasury and the Bank of England to set it up. Cheers.

Isawthathaggis

You’ve got the wrong end of the stick there OP-
England will need a hard border, just like it needs to figure out the Irish border.
Not up to Scotland to fix your mess and patrol your borders. So when you’ve figured it out, do let us know.

Not necessarily. The EU would have needed the border in the case of NI, not the UK, to insure the integrity of its single market and customs unit. Same theoretically in the case of Scotland: the EU would need the border.

As we found with Brexit, it's unwise to make assumptions about what the other country(ies) will accept. The Scots would be wise to heed that. There's no guarantee that England will allow them an open border, or tariff free imports/exports for example. No guarantee that England will keep employing the Scots in the Scottish tax offices or other public service offices - why would they? Before it goes to the people, I think the SNP would be wise to actually have a negotiated "answer" to such issues. The Scots have seen what happened with Brexit with obstacles put in the way by the EU - they'd be very foolish to make assumptions about a Scottish/English border, i.e. an assumption of an open border - I don't think the English would stand for it without concessions etc. It certainly won't be a one-way street with only Scotland benefiting!

Yes we can. It’s our pound too. But we will prefer to set up our own currency. We’ll take our share of the reserves from the treasury and the Bank of England to set it up. Cheers.

As long as you take your share of the national debt too!

I don’t know why people keep banging on about England not allowing an open border—the EU itself wouldn’t allow it. If England didn’t put up a border, the EU would. Otherwise they would risk lower-prices and lower-standard goods and foods flooding into their market via Scotland (as well as Ireland).

Which is why so many of us voted Remain three years ago.