Tell me the good things about Johnson's Brexit plans...

[thehorseandhisboy]

With it looking like a Tory majority, and Johnson's intention to 'get Brexit done' (in a different way to the way he 'got it done' in October), I'm trying to understand how a hard Brexit, possible a no deal Brexit, will be the saviour of the country that the Conservatives believe that it will be.

What benefits will a hard Brexit bring to the people of the UK?

I hope that brexit will make many people more realistic. The UK has been acting a bit spoilt at times. It needs to understand that it is just another country and isn't more important than others.

I was sort of thinking that people who voted for Johnson's Brexit had at least a sketchy idea of what his plans were.

Labour's idea of yet another referendum was, to me, ill-conceived and certain to intensify social divisions.

Yet this still seemed less certainly catastrophic for the people of the country than the real possibility that the UK could still leave the EU with no deal, no trade agreements contained within a plan than Johnson wanted to hide from parliamentary scrutiny.

Not saying at all that my view was more right than anyone else's.

But really want to understand from people who voted for Johnson's oven-ready Brexit what benefits they saw in it.

I’m sure that anyone who cares about animal welfare will agree that this will be a great thing...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49862546

The smaller state idea is a bit dated tbh. Not only is quite a large state needed to deliver not just Brexit but also all these manifesto promises but also, all this is happening just as the uk is finally falling out of love with outsourcing. There are reasons why capita, Serco, interserve, mitie etc all issues profit warnings this year (not to mention the collapse of Carillion).

Last May 75% of local authorities said they were planning to take services back in house. In-sourcing is the new outsourcing - thank god. It was always a stupid idea.

besidesthepoint this is Danny dorling’s point - he thinks that the benefit of Brexit is that it will take us down several pegs and stop us seeing ourselves as ‘special’ - still harking back, even if subconsciously, to the days of empire.

I find this quite a depressing idea though and I’m sure it’s not Johnson’s idea of a benefit of his deal.

*besidesthepoint this is Danny dorling’s point - he thinks that the benefit of Brexit is that it will take us down several pegs and stop us seeing ourselves as ‘special’ - still harking back, even if subconsciously, to the days of empire.

I find this quite a depressing idea though and I’m sure it’s not Johnson’s idea of a benefit of his deal.*

I agree with you but it was the only positive I could think of at the moment.

Yes, I can see the harking back to day of empire among my mum's generation and also in things like Daily Express headlines.

It's inaccurate, out-dated, divisive and damaging, but also on it's natural way out as that generation comes to the end of their lives.

I worry more than it will spark a rise in a nationalism, and all the problems that come with that.

Our children will be at the back of the queue (if they are even in the queue) for any professional jobs outside the uk.

This is such a load of pipe dream.

THE TRUTH is that this movement is almost non existent. Firstly, only to the very skilled, secondly, because of language issues, thirdly because of different laws (anyone read of the people in France who allowed a local farmer to come and bale hay/another one to cut down some trees - THEY SUCCESSFULLY PUT IN CLAIMS and got that land/the forest, because French law is different to English law), fourthly, family ties.

The truth is that because of English the flow is TOWARDS the UK, WHICH RIGHTS have already been guaranteed because UK isn't a dickish country.

Immigration will go on to a points based system to limit the very poor and unskilled.

I think the Tories will be unelectable for a generation when people realise what they've voted for. Possibly finished forever.

I thought that when I read the white paper on welfare reform, back in 2011. Turns out they can starve the poor and hardly anyone cares. Brexit is trickier because it harms the vast majority, not just the bottom 20%. Doubtless the Tories and the billionaire press will try to scapegoat their way out of any blame, and the voting public are demonstrably stupid enough to fall for it.

The only bright spot I can see is that Leave voters will suffer the bad consequences they have wished on foreigners/expats/minorities. They will be marooned on a prison island of their own making, having been too stupid and complacent to flee to the continent during the transition period. Not that the transition period is in the bag just yet.

No deal brexit hopefully once the negotiating period runs out in 12 months time after we've left next month.

Not that the transition period is in the bag just yet

It's highly unlikely that the withdrawal deal won't now get through the UK parliament or indeed the European parliament. However, I'm not sure if all the legislation needed on both sides can be done by the end of Jan, so actual Brexit day could be a week or so later.

End of 2020 is another issue entirely, but I think we can safely say there won't be a no deal Brexit at the end of Jan.

The thing is, the election has shown that there is still a massive appetite for Brexit. So even if we had elected Corbyn, even if he had called a second referendum, the evidence seems to show that Brexit would still be happening, just a bit further down the line. I don't want Brexit and I don't want a Tory government but I can make peace with voters making an overwhelming choice, even if it isn't something I agree with.

No deal brexit hopefully once the negotiating period runs out in 12 months time after we've left next month

There are really no words to describe people who think crashing out is a good thing.

anyone read of the people in France who allowed a local farmer to come and bale hay/another one to cut down some trees - THEY SUCCESSFULLY PUT IN CLAIMS and got that land/the forest, because French law is different to English law

I haven't read that, but it sounds like your "people in France" inadvertently created a secure tenancy and then couldn't evict the tenant farmer with whom they thought they had a purely informal arrangement. Or maybe you meant something different, but agricultural tenancies have nothing to do with employment law more generally. Unless you just meant to highlight that French law is different from English law, which will surely surprise nobody.

It will be difficult to work in France as a third country national, true. What is not certain is that Brits trying their luck in France will become "almost non-existent". It's not a perfect analogy, but do you remember when practically anyone could walk into a top UK university and get a degree for free? Hardly anyone was interested. Now it's difficult and costly, practically everyone's going to "Uni". Sometimes high barriers and prestige pricing stimulate demand as well as being the result of high demand. It's what one could call a virtuous circle, if one thought it was a good thing.

All those posts on FB from people saying “well I voted remain but now it’s just time to get Brexit done and dusted” - aargh!!! They don’t have a bloody clue!! They have no idea what Brexit actually means and what kind of deals will be struck, but they want it anyway doh!

It's highly unlikely that the withdrawal deal won't now get through the UK parliament or indeed the European parliament. However, I'm not sure if all the legislation needed on both sides can be done by the end of Jan, so actual Brexit day could be a week or so later.

You're probably right, it's just my Eeyoreish nature at work. It's cheering that nobody is overtly threatening a crashout in a few weeks' time.

Not difficult to see how this thread was going rigt from the first question

""people in France" inadvertently created a secure tenancy and then couldn't evict the tenant farmer with whom they thought they had a purely informal arrangement." - that is it, @Charlottejbt

I don't think Brexit is going to be marvellous and hunky dory. But I do think in the long run it will be to the UK advantage.

China, India and Africa (BRICS) are on the ascendant and we can be a lot more flexible and competetive outside the EU with these new markets.

There's nothing good about them. Even if you think that Brexit's good then May's deal was more or less objectively better [despite, of course, being struck by a woman]. But, look, it's a done deal now, parliament is sovereign & this parliament will make sure it happens.

I suppose maybe the kindest thing I can say is that they leave so much detail to be sorted out that there might be some pleasant surprises later on?

All those posts on FB from people saying “well I voted remain but now it’s just time to get Brexit done and dusted”

That's pretty much word for word what I heard at the weekend from an old schoolmate I've known for 35 years. She's an Oxford educated senior civil servant (not DexEU though). It feels as if everyone not blinded by sheer stupidity is blinded by total complacency. Admittedly the distinction is a fine one.

@ScreamingLadySutch Thanks for the clarification, glad I read your post correctly. It's a bloody minefield over there if you don't know what you're doing. DP just told me he's planning to let one of his tenants graze sheep on a small patch of wasteland where I wanted to plant a vegetable garden in future, but he (DP) is French and has been a landowner for a long time, so hopefully it'll be fine. If I were dealing with a farmer directly, I wouldn't have a clue and would be reliant on the notaire handling the sale to advise on tenancy issues.. Anyway I'm derailing the thread, sorry.

No benefits. Brexit is a terrible idea and now BoJo has to own it. Good luck to him keeping the union together, keeping the economy strong, appeasing the posh in the shires whilst simultaneously keeping the working class northerners and midlanders happy. Let’s hope Labour can find themselves an electable leader who can somehow withstand the inevitable onslaught from the right wing media. Brace for 5 or even 10 years of this crap.

figglepig do you think the election outcomes showed that is still a massive appetite for Brexit?

I tend to think it shows there's massive appetite for people feeling some sort of franchise; that their 'leave' vote did mean something as it was the majority vote.

'Get Brexit done' seems to be the UK version of 'Make America Great Again'; an ideological agenda to justify an attack on immigrants with little basis in economic reality.

Anybody expecting the WTO to look out for the UK is in for a shock
as Trump has just stopped the WTO functioning ....

@Saddler - why are you hoping for a no deal Brexit? I’m assuming you’ve not understood the impact?