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Original poster

Anti-vaccination friends around newborn

219 replies

Originalusernameunavailable · 12/12/2019 11:50

Hello, NC for this.

I am going to start by stressing this is not a thread for opinions on whether to vaccinate children or not. That’s an individual decision for everyone.

I do vaccinate my children because I believe the pros outweigh the risks.

My newborn obviously isn’t old enough for any jabs yet.

The subject came up with a friend as to whether I would allow our friends who are anti-vaccinations to be visiting my newborn in my own home due to risks of them being carriers of any of the ailments the vaccinations cover.

I can honestly say it’s not something I had considered before. My thoughts are my baby could come into contact with lots of people who have various illnesses, germs etc.

However, I was wondering if I’m being too laid back or whether my friends are just being neurotic in terms of the visiting/contact?

As I’ve said, please don’t make this into a slanging match about pro/anti vaccinations, please take the question as it is -

Is it unreasonable to think unvaccinated visitors are putting a newborn at extra risk?

Unreasonable - don’t be ridiculous!
Reasonable - don’t risk it!

OP posts:
cherryblossomgin · 12/12/2019 15:04

I wouldn't, the risk is there and it's a choice they have made. I have a cat and when she was a kitten I wouldn't of let her near an unvaccinated cat. I know it's not the same but when I have a child they won't be around anyone unvaccinated if I can help it.

MamaFlintstone · 12/12/2019 15:05

They wouldn’t be coming into my house. It’s just a risk assessment for me. The risk (even if it’s slight) to my baby would outweigh the risk of pissing off someone whose opinions and practices I wouldn’t respect anyway. Of course there may be a risk that someone who hasn’t had the flu vaccine this year could be carrying the flu virus or someone who was vaccinated as a child may have lost immunity, but those are lesser risks and people I care more about.

iVampire · 12/12/2019 15:05

Also if you go by the definition of ‘not being vaccinated’, many grand parents shouldn't be left close to newborns either (because MMR didn’t exist in this e times, an a lot of vaccines weren’t available then either)

Whooping cough vax has been around since the 1940s, so they may well have had that.

People born before 1970 do not require MMR catch up because the disease was so prevalent that everyone had it.

Ask around the over 50s and they’ll all know people left impaired from measles. It’s a nasty disease. But if you’ve had it, you’ll have lifelong immunity.

Rachelle1980 · 12/12/2019 15:07

I wouldn't knowingly risk it around a newborn, it's too devastating when an entirely preventable disease is spread, the consequences are life changing.

It might bruise the ego of anyone who's not vaccinated but that's one of the downsides to making the decision not to vaccinate.

Equanimitas · 12/12/2019 15:07

the pertussis vaccine is meant to stop the symptoms not the spread of the illness.

Nope. It's acellular and boosts pertussis-specific antibodies, so it is certainly intended to stop people catching the illness and therefore spreading it.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 12/12/2019 15:09

Not near my child!
If they are entitled to not vaccinate their kids and risk infecting others- I am entitled to not let them visit and risk upsetting /offending them

Equanimitas · 12/12/2019 15:11

it’s pointless on mumsnet trying to put the other side of the debate.

It's pointless anywhere if you aren't going to put forward any credible facts and evidence to support the other side of the debate.

People aren’t interested in anything other than ill informed media soundbites

I'm very interested in proper, peer-reviewed scientific facts and evidence. Have you got any, @Pilot1?

Louiselouie0890 · 12/12/2019 15:11

Cant you be a carrier even if you've had the vaccination?

CanIHaveADrink · 12/12/2019 15:12

@ivampire, nit everyone had mumps or measles.
I never had them, nor had DH. My mum didn’t either

And been vaccinated against whooping cough isn’t going to protect them or the newborn from mumps. Or some forms of meningitis that children get nowadays. I haven’t seen all the parents rushing to get those vaccines yet the illness are very dangerous and very few will have had meningitis.

Once again, I’m curious to know why me as an adult who has not had mumps or measles and havent the MMR because it didn’t exist is less of a risk than a child who hasn’t had the MMR.
FWIW I’m not saying i am against vaccinations per se. I just don’t understand the logic of saying it’s ok for the grand parents who hasn’t had mumps to see a newborn everyday but not for the friend (who is vaccinated) or their dcs to come over occasionally.

CanIHaveADrink · 12/12/2019 15:13

@Louiselouie0890, yes there are many reports abiut people who have been vaccinated who are also carrier or did get the illness.
Just as I know of a few children who have had chicken pox several times even though you are supposed to be ‘immune’ once you’ve had it once.

Pilot1 · 12/12/2019 15:15

@HoHoHoik
The other side of the debate is:
That vaccines, as well as causing severe disabilities, are responsible for a wealth of chronic immune conditions.

That there have never been any proper safety studies and by that I mean a double blind placebo study and not one that compares a new vaccine to the current vaccine (which would have been tested against its predecessor and so on until there is no test zero) ....except Guinea Bissau where it was eventually found that children vaccinated with the DTP had a significantly higher all cause mortality the theory being that the vaccine was compromising the immune systems of those children making them more susceptible to other diseases

And that there are no studies comparing the health of FULLY unvaccinated to those receiving the full schedule. Because there are plenty of fully unvaccinated children with which to do this. Do the study and shut us all up. The debate is not settled.

Valanice1989 · 12/12/2019 15:16

I find it bizarre when anti-vaxxers get offended when people keep their babies away from their unvaccinated children. You can't have it both ways! I've heard people say, "Why are my children being treated like lepers just because they've not been vaccinated? Why are they any likelier to be crawling with diseases than any other child?" Er, because they've not been vaccinated, obviously!

Equanimitas · 12/12/2019 15:16

can you tell me why they are more at risk of a child that is unvaccinated than they are of a grand parent that isn’t vaccinated?

A grandparent is much more likely to have picked up immunity during their lifetime and, as stated, is much less likely to be in contact with infectious individuals.

Louise267 · 12/12/2019 15:18

Why the discussion. Just go ahead if it makes you feel better because at the end of the day you should respect each others choices as we're all only doing what we believe to be best for our children. I'm sure your friend will be totally understanding. Just watch out for those friends who don't tell you they're anti vax due to fear of ridicule and persecution. Oh and most people over 30 who have lost immunity to most diseases they vaccinate against.

strawberrieshortcake · 12/12/2019 15:19

OP as you can see the thread is beginning to be hijacked by anti-backers but all the reasonable people have said you aren’t unreasonable to keep your baby away from them

strawberrieshortcake · 12/12/2019 15:20

*anti-vaxxers

Equanimitas · 12/12/2019 15:21

@Pilot1, how do you account for the incontrovertible evidence of massive falls in incidence of the diseases in question, to say nothing of deaths and permanent injury resulting from them, after the introduction of vaccines?

strawberrieshortcake · 12/12/2019 15:22

@Louise267 please give me the source for the claim that most people over 30 have lost immunity to diseases they vaccinate against. I want a peer reviewed research paper with thousands of subjects and unbiased researchers- not a Facebook page run by a tinfoil hat wearer.

lanthanum · 12/12/2019 15:22

"For example, the whooping cough virus is present in the throat and mucus membranes of most vaccinated adults. It just lives there but the adults do not get sick because they are vaccinated. If the adult is sniffly or coughs. You then have their cold/cough virus with some added whopping cough virus going airborne or on their hands, being transmitted and infecting a newborn. "

The whooping cough vaccine is only effective for about 10 years (www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/pregvaccs/pertussis/) - I think it's just much less serious in adults, but they do recommend revaccination for those around newborns.

You can probably assume most adult/teen visitors are not vaccinated as far as whooping cough goes. I don't know what the prevalence of infection is, though.

Lifecraft · 12/12/2019 15:22

The other side of the debate is:
That vaccines, as well as causing severe disabilities, are responsible for a wealth of chronic immune conditions.

I believe the moon is made of rock. I suppose there is another side to the debate, and that is the moon is made of cheese.

The difference is, scientists and astronauts believe it's made of rock, and idiots believe it's made of cheese.

Doctors and scientist say vaccines are safe. Morons on the internet say they aren't

I guess not all opinions are equal.

CanIHaveADrink · 12/12/2019 15:22

@Equanimitas and as stated this NOT always the case
Not all people ho are born pre 1970 have picked an immunity for mumps, measles or meningitis.
Assuming they are is a crazy thing to do imo....

CanIHaveADrink · 12/12/2019 15:25

@strawberrieshortcake, could you give a link to a paper stating that people over 30 are all immunised to the disease they have been vaccinated against?? I want a peer reviewed research paper with thousands of subjects and unbiased researchers- and research on infèrent disease as they are nit equal.

Would you also have peer reviewed research about how vaccines are protecting people from disease as well as all the possible sides effets from them? I’m particularly interested the flu vaccine.

HoHoHoik · 12/12/2019 15:27

That vaccines, as well as causing severe disabilities, are responsible for a wealth of chronic immune conditions.

Which disabilities and conditions are you referring to? Please be more specific.

Equanimitas · 12/12/2019 15:33

Of course not everyone over 50 has picked up immunity to everything, @CanIHaveaDrink, but it's about different assessments of risk, isn't it? An older person poses much less risk than an unvaccinated child because of the likelihood that they have picked up immunities, and because they are much less likely to be in contact with sources of infection.

In any event, it is absolutely the parents' choice. They can choose not to have anyone unvaccinated near their newborn, they can choose simply to exclude unvaccinated children. It's not up to you, me or anyone else to tell them they don't have that right.

malificent7 · 12/12/2019 15:36

Why are people so anti science? Research Literarure is peer reviewed to weed out bias you know.