Anti-vaccination friends around newborn

[Originalusernameunavailable]

Hello, NC for this.

I am going to start by stressing this is not a thread for opinions on whether to vaccinate children or not. That’s an individual decision for everyone.

I do vaccinate my children because I believe the pros outweigh the risks.

My newborn obviously isn’t old enough for any jabs yet.

The subject came up with a friend as to whether I would allow our friends who are anti-vaccinations to be visiting my newborn in my own home due to risks of them being carriers of any of the ailments the vaccinations cover.

I can honestly say it’s not something I had considered before. My thoughts are my baby could come into contact with lots of people who have various illnesses, germs etc.

However, I was wondering if I’m being too laid back or whether my friends are just being neurotic in terms of the visiting/contact?

As I’ve said, please don’t make this into a slanging match about pro/anti vaccinations, please take the question as it is -

Is it unreasonable to think unvaccinated visitors are putting a newborn at extra risk?

Unreasonable - don’t be ridiculous!
Reasonable - don’t risk it!

@Lifecraft

What risks are those? The risk of being run over on the way to have your vaccination? Or the risk of a masked gunman running amok in the GP's surgery whilst you are there?

The risk of an adverse reaction to the vaccine. Rare, but does happen and some are very serious. The same can be said with virtually all medication though.

@OrangeZog

No I wasn’t- it’s not policy in the country where I live. But I think it’s a very good thing if pregnant women get vaccinated against whooping cough.

I did have my blood checked to see if I still had enough antibodies against rubella from the vaccinations I had received as a child but unfortunately there weren’t enough to be properly protected. You can’t get a rubella vaccination during pregnancy so my OB Gyn was a bit worried about that and so DH got his rubella vaccination updated and she strongly recommended me to stay away from very crowded public transport, streets etc.

Would never be friends with an anti-vaxxer in the first place but would definitely not allow them near my newborn.

Wouldn’t risk it. I know a baby who caught measles from an unvaccinated child before they were old enough to get the vaccine themselves and was very poorly.

There's one documented case of a vaccinated person spreading measles that I could find. The risk appears to be very low.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time

Oh no, @Honeybee85, I can completely understand your worry then - I mean, I can still understand even if you have had the vaccine because I always worry about it not working but definitely more so in your case.

The stupidity of the Anti Vax crew is such they they think they don't need vax or their children don't either and thats becase the masses have vaxed so those diseases are now alost dormat or next to non existant.

As to being in the company of a new born probally a very low risk indeed unless they are obvioulsy ill, cold flu or much else that making them feel unwell.

Course babe may well come into contact with other anti's over time but because of vax lllness are much much less of a risk now, isnt really a problem buit the more who do not vax then those ilness will return.

May not orignate from the UK but plenty travel dont they and can bring stuff back from abroad.

Perhaps thst what they'd like to see good of dose of Smallpox or Polio diptheria peaumonia etc, keep the population down a bit eh;!!!

There is a very special place in hell waiting for Andrew Wakefield.

@OrangeZog

What was even more scary was that at that time there was an active rubella outbreak where I live among men in their 40s and 50s - unlike the women in the same age category they hadn’t received the vaccinations as a child because men can’t get pregnant.

Thankfully I didn’t get it and DS is healthy but I got worried sick when I thought too much of it.
That’s why the anti vaccination minded make me so angry- they put others at risk and you’re completely powerless to even in this case protect an otherwise completely healthy unborn baby.

many anti-vaxxers are themselves vaccinated, probably because their parents understood why there is no smallpox and maybe listened at school and so could assess risk.

You need to keep their kids away from yours, and also from you if you get pregnant again. Read the tragic story of Gene Tierney's little girl, left profoundly disabled from an inconsiderate fan. The damage that rubella can cause has not changed, nor has that from any other serious disease.

I hope these people's children are not killed or damaged by their ignorance. Find new friends.

I am finding it quite interesting to see that all those who are saying ‘No Way!’ arent also explaining why they think like that.

If anything I would be more worried about a young child that hasn’t been vaccinated yet because of their age.
Also if you go by the definition of ‘not being vaccinated’, many grand parents shouldn't be left close to newborns either (because MMR didn’t exist in this e times, an a lot of vaccines weren’t available then either)

Eg my dcs who are teens have been vaccinated. However they haven’t been vaccinated against all the diseases newborns are vaccinated against nowdays. The vaccination schedule was just different.
I have never had the MMR, it didn’t exist in those days an never caught either mumps or measle. Same with DH.

Stopping friends who are anti vaxxers to come in contact with a child for fear of them giving the baby an illness just doesn’t make sense. Unless you are worried they will somehow infect you or your dcs with that strange thing that is being an anti vaxxers.

it’s pointless on mumsnet trying to put the other side of the debate. People aren’t interested in anything other than ill informed media soundbites

What other side of the "debate"? There is no debate. Vaccines are very safe, they have prevented countless deaths by protecting people against some very nasty illnesses, and as a population we no longer have to worry about horrific scenarios like having to bury all five of our children one after the other over the course of two weeks because of something like measles.

Stopping friends who are anti vaxxers to come in contact with a child for fear of them giving the baby an illness just doesn’t make sense.

It does make sense though as an unvaccinated child is far more likely to be carrying one of these diseases than a vaccinated child is.

@CanIHaveADrink I think people are giving their reasons loud and clear e.g "My nephew ended up with a partial face paralysis after contracting mumps as a baby from an unvaccinated older child who had it in a very light form when visiting."

Grandparents etc obviously can't be cut out of children's lives and obviously it's very likely the baby will come into some form of contact with unvaccinated people when out and about. Again - can't avoid taking the baby out and about... but the op is talking about a friend and whether she should knowingly expose her child to risk unnecessarily when it could be avoided.

If you think unnecessary exposure is a good idea then let's agree to disagree but I certainly wouldn't do it with my child.

Oops, one of those YABU counts is supposed to be a YANBU

My fingers slipped while voting

YANBU, to be clear

Personally if I knew they were not vaccinated then no I wouldn’t until mine had at least first 2 ... but if you didn’t feel it an issue then that’s totally fine too .. we all do our own acceptable risk assessments for our kids based on our knowledge and experience

We avoided taking both my DC to any crowded indoor places until they were old enough for their first round of jabs, just to be extra sure they weren't coming into contact with unvaccinated people.

At the time of my first pregnancy, whooping cough outbreaks were the biggest concern where I am, so DH, myself and all grandparents also had whooping cough vaccines re-done before DS arrived.

Anti vaxxers, you wanting a resurrection of mass diphtheria and polio too? Ya know, those diseases that left hundreds of thousands dead or permanently disabled before vaccines..

@firstimemamma, can you tell me why they are more at risk of a child that is unvaccinated than they are of a grand parent that isn’t vaccinated?
Why is it Moore of problem with a friend or child’s friend when they will see them occasionally vs a grandparent they will see much more, will have cuddles with etc...?

Serious question. I can’t get my head around the relative risk of doing both and why one is seeing as so much more dangerous.

I think nurseries and childcare providers should have a policy that all children must be vaccinated, unless they can't due to medical reasons.

I'm aware that doesn't solve your problem OP, I just think it is something that should happen.

I think you're worrying about this too much. It doesn't need to be a war. Be honest with you anti vax friend and I'm sure she will smile, nod, say ok whilst going home and feeling so sad you refuse to open your eyes to the other side.

No way would l ever let my child near them, baby or toddler. My DGD has CF (no she's not a cheeky fucker she has cystic fibrosis) and there were a couple of anti vaxxers children in her class, she caught measles seriously ill for months after it brought on a chest infection. Yeah go you, anti vaxxers Sorry OP can't help but show my hatred of them.

@CanIHaveADrink I think we need to agree to disagree 👍🏻

As a community, children are more likely than older people to be carrying infectious illnesses simply because they tend to spend a lot of time associating with other potential carriers/children in germ riddled environments like schools and softplay, they are typically less stringent with personal hygiene and infection control measures, and have less developed immune systems. Older people who were not vaccinated simply because the vaccine in question did exist back in their day are more likely to be immune due to catching the disease in question.

It's about the balance of probability. It is more probable you will catch something from the child.

so sad you refuse to open your eyes to the other side.

Again, what other side? There is no justifiable other side. Vaccines are safe, they prevent disease, unless someone falls into one of the groups who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons then there is no excuse to not be vaccinated.