Anti-vaccination friends around newborn

[Originalusernameunavailable]

Hello, NC for this.

I am going to start by stressing this is not a thread for opinions on whether to vaccinate children or not. That’s an individual decision for everyone.

I do vaccinate my children because I believe the pros outweigh the risks.

My newborn obviously isn’t old enough for any jabs yet.

The subject came up with a friend as to whether I would allow our friends who are anti-vaccinations to be visiting my newborn in my own home due to risks of them being carriers of any of the ailments the vaccinations cover.

I can honestly say it’s not something I had considered before. My thoughts are my baby could come into contact with lots of people who have various illnesses, germs etc.

However, I was wondering if I’m being too laid back or whether my friends are just being neurotic in terms of the visiting/contact?

As I’ve said, please don’t make this into a slanging match about pro/anti vaccinations, please take the question as it is -

Is it unreasonable to think unvaccinated visitors are putting a newborn at extra risk?

Unreasonable - don’t be ridiculous!
Reasonable - don’t risk it!

@RevengeOfTheReindeer fair point on the hygiene..though I’m not convinced all adults are any better than kids on that score
Also, as a parent, regardless of vaccinated or not I’d never take a child with an active cold or whatever to visit a new baby. I think that’s common sense. My point was really that people can unwittingly be infected with things and have no idea until later. Say measles was doing the rounds, I, knowing my child isn’t vaccinated would take precautions to reduce exposure And I’d never visit a nb during a measles outbreak, but someone who has been vaccinated but Is no longer covered might not take those same precautions and be as much of a risk. I hope that makes sense.

I know we can’t protect children from every little thing, but I think I would be drawing the line at allowing people who I know don’t vaccinate anywhere near my newborn. It’s a completely avoidable risk, and my child’s health takes precedence over their hurt feelings (and general batshittery)
You would think adults would avoid a newborn if sick but I’ve seen many stories (on here!!) where auntie someone has rocked up with her sniffly kid in tow to meet the new baby!
If I find out you don’t vaccinate, you aren’t coming near my baby until either you or they are vaccinated.

In response to the flu jab, the midwife actually said to me I needed to be sure my husband and children also got it before my baby was born. I was quite surprised but took her advice.

Nope. Not within a mile of them. Smile and wave and never see them again. Idiots.

There is no added risk of an unvaccinated person passing on germs compared to a vaccinated person. Vaccines don’t stop you from picking up germs and passing them around, they just stop you from getting sick.
All people, vaccinated and unvaccinated, can pass on an illness to a newborn.

I just received an email from the school nurse about a measles outbreak in Wandsworth. Measles outbreak in London in 2019?!?!?

I'd be very cautious and would not let them into my home.

I would allow the adults on the assumption that they had presumably been vaccinated themselves and this isn't an inter-generational stance (this would also depend a bit on how old they are), but any children, NFW.

I completely support vaccinations and my children have even had some privately (eg chickenpox etc) but remember that no child below the age of 12 months has MMR in the UK and none are fully vaccinated until their preschool jabs, which are well after their third birthday. So will your child be avoiding all nurseries, play groups, soft play venues etc as well?

I appreciate that measles is a growing concern in this country, and I live in an area that has had a measles warning, but having had babies who have been treated for bronchiolitis, croup, and sepsis, I think there are a lot of things out there that are a more realistic risk to our children and they cannot be vaccinated against.

It’s hard. We want to protect our children but we have to let them leave the house.

All that said, YANBU to keep a newborn away from anyone who is unvaccinated (or even anyone who is vaccinated because it isn’t a guarantee).

The risk of SSPE (little-known and devastating late complication of measles that basically strikes healthy, developing children down up to ten years after the original infection and causes them to gradually lose all their abilities and die) is much, much higher among those who caught measles under the age of one.

There is no added risk of an unvaccinated person passing on germs compared to a vaccinated person. Vaccines don’t stop you from picking up germs and passing them around, they just stop you from getting sick

I'm not sure this is correct, flies in the face of all herd immunity arguments.

I personally wouldn't be allowing unvaccinated children to visit a newborn. It's just not worth the risk.

FWIW we are very cautious about who we spend time with - we wouldn't be spending time with people who are anti-vaccine by choice. Have health issues in our immediate family hence the caution.

And knowledge is key - if an adult whose immunity has waned accidentally passes on a disease, it is unavoidable. However, choosing to never have vaccines so removing that element is a choice and as a family we respond accordingly.

@PlanDeRaccordement
Many childhood illnesses that are currently vaccinated against 1) have a very light, pretty much symptomless form 2) are most contagious before the child showing any signs of being unwell.

I wouldn't worry, your typical anti-vaxxer would struggle to operate a satnav to find your home anyway.

Steer clear. Until my daughter had her own vaccinations complete, 15 months here in Spain, I would not let her around non vaccinated children I knew of. Here they cover 98% of the population still, so it's not a big issue, yet. There is no way that I would assume the extra risk to my baby of other people's decisions.

I'm not sure this is correct

I googled it and it's not correct. Apparently immunised individuals are much less likely to spread the disease. Which, as you said, is how herd immunity works.

Would you prevent me visiting because I don't get the flu jab?

Yep. Ds2 nearly died of the flu at 11 months old.

I wasn't vaccinated against a lot of illnesses (despite what is claimed on MN, the MMR vaccine was not available to me, I was born in 1972) and had mumps, chicken pox, measles and rubella - as well as having the rubella vaccine. But I don't really know if my immunity is strong. I was checked again for rubella immunity when I was pregnant and it was ok, but that was 17 year ago.

If you are really worried about your newborn catching something nasty the best thing to do is to keep contact to the outside world to a minimum until they're older and have at least had their first lot of jabs.

My son went to nursery at 7 months and he got his first illness at 10 months (followed by chicken pox at 16 months). So even being in the cauldron of bugs in a nursery didn't make him ill straight away.

Would you extend a ban to a child who can't be vaccinated for health reasons?

Also - newborn babies enjoy immunity from their mothers, so are not as vulnerable as people make out on MN

This is a myth.

There is no added risk of an unvaccinated person passing on germs compared to a vaccinated person. Vaccines don’t stop you from picking up germs and passing them around, they just stop you from getting sick

This is also untrue.

Depends. If your friends children have measles, mumps etc, then keep them away. If they don't, then yes let them visit. Why wouldn't you if they're well

There seems to be some confusion - not being vaccinated isn't the same as actually having the disease. There will be hundreds of people that your newborn will come across who won't have been vaccinated. Unless they're ill they pose no extra risk to your dc whatsoever.

Yep. Ds2 nearly died of the flu at 11 months old

So how would you police that? As I asked the OP, ask me for my vaccination records before you let me over the threshold?

Actually on the flu thing, if you are thinking about doing it and haven't, Dr Mark Porter was writing in his weekly column in the Times this week that "they" think they have the strains pretty accurately this year. So if you are wavering, and in one of the categories who qualifies to get it, it may well be pretty effective.

@MonstranceClock 👏🏻

@KidLorneRoll I appreciated that

I wouldn't let them near my newborn.

newborn babies enjoy immunity from their mothers, so are not as vulnerable as people make out on MN

This is not true.

newborn babies enjoy immunity from their mothers, so are not as vulnerable as people make out on MN

This is a myth

It isn't. Immunity crosses the placenta and is also passed on in breastmilk. But it doesn't last, obviously. See www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/pregnancy/what-is-the-placenta/

newborn babies enjoy immunity from their mothers, so are not as vulnerable as people make out on MN

This is not true

The NHS disagrees with you. I trust an NHS source more than random people on MN. See again: www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/pregnancy/what-is-the-placenta/

Says for up to 3 months.

Apart from keeping your baby away from potential health problems, tbh I’d do it to make sure they know how I feel about their ignorance.