Anti-vaccination friends around newborn

[Originalusernameunavailable]

Hello, NC for this.

I am going to start by stressing this is not a thread for opinions on whether to vaccinate children or not. That’s an individual decision for everyone.

I do vaccinate my children because I believe the pros outweigh the risks.

My newborn obviously isn’t old enough for any jabs yet.

The subject came up with a friend as to whether I would allow our friends who are anti-vaccinations to be visiting my newborn in my own home due to risks of them being carriers of any of the ailments the vaccinations cover.

I can honestly say it’s not something I had considered before. My thoughts are my baby could come into contact with lots of people who have various illnesses, germs etc.

However, I was wondering if I’m being too laid back or whether my friends are just being neurotic in terms of the visiting/contact?

As I’ve said, please don’t make this into a slanging match about pro/anti vaccinations, please take the question as it is -

Is it unreasonable to think unvaccinated visitors are putting a newborn at extra risk?

Unreasonable - don’t be ridiculous!
Reasonable - don’t risk it!

They’d be nowhere near my newborn. Or my family at all for that matter.

I wouldn't risk it. Over 140,000 people died from measles last year.

Yanbu. this is your precious baby.

Sorry, I am correct. Vaccines do not stop the germs from existing or getting on you or in your system or passed around. They cause an immune response which prevents you from getting sick when exposed to the germs in future. Vaccines do not eliminate the germs. They eliminate sickness.

Google can lead you to lots of misinformation written by people who have no understanding of how vaccines work. Yes, unvaccinated people are more likely to get sick and spread sickness but that is not the same thing as picking up and passing on the germ. The germs are constantly passed around vaccinated people too, we just don’t track it or care because the vaccinated people are not getting sick.

RN here. It was a firm no for me when my kids were infants. Any avoidable risk of serious illness should be avoided. YANBU.

no i wouldn't. but i don't think i could be friends with an antivaxer in the first place!

I’d be more keen to know how many adults are up to date on their vaccinations. I know of no one who has been vaccinated since they were a child (unless for flu or travel or after an injury in case of tetanus)

I bet if most adults got titre tested it would be interesting to see the results!

Google can lead you to lots of misinformation written by people who have no understanding of how vaccines work

It led me to the CDC website, which says "fully vaccinated people are also less likely to spread the disease to other people".

Put it the other way, OP, why WOULD you risk it? Social awkwardness? Is that a good enough reason to knowingly risk exposing your newborn baby to serious and preventable diseases?

Risk assessments aren't only about the likelihood of an outcome, but also the seriousness. Mercifully most people in this country still have all their marbles vaccinate their children so the risk is still relatively low, but the potential consequences of your newborn picking up measles, mumps, rubella etc. (short term and long term) bear googling.

Personally the thought of explaining to my child in later life that the reason for their poor immune system / hearing / liver function is that I didn't want to risk offending some friends we had at the time (and probably don't see anymore) answers the question for me.

There is actually a public health ad campaign where I live about the dangers that unvaccinated adults can pose to a baby. They encourage all adults who are going to be in close/frequent contact with a baby to have their immunity status checked (simple blood tests) and to be vaccinated if needed to bring their immunities 'up to date'.

YANBU.

Nope, wouldn't allow them near my baby at all.

They can keep their death wishes to themselves... though sadly it's their innocent children, not them at risk.

Some immunity for some diseases can come from maternal antibodies. Tray us why MMR is routinely done at 1 year, so there is reasonable certainty that the infant is forming their own response, not benefitting from that of their mother (scheduling of puppy jabs is worked out on same basis!)

That doesn't necessarily mean that your baby would be safe to rely on that. Babies unfortunately really do catch diseases which their mothers are immune to, and the diseases can be very serious in the very young - 14 babies too young to receive DPT died of whooping cough a few years ago, and that is why the jab in pregnancy was rolled out - to stimulate the mother's response so there can be transfer to the baby and the benefit of some protective effect (some may not catch it, others get it more mildly,and fewer are at risk because there is less in circulation.

On a practical note, you will never be sure of the vax status of all the people your baby will meet until they are 13 months (and have had full courses of baby jabs and 1st MMR. But that is not a reason to knowingly associate with those you know are unimmunised if that is not a risk you want to run, the vast majority of cases are in the unimmunised.

Some senses can be spread by contact with infected surfaces (others live only very briefly outside a nice, warm host). But surfaces are way more likely to become infected it are touched by someone with (including incubating) the disease, not from an immune person who hasched something and then touches something else. Not impossible, but pretty unlikely. Handwashingevery trnpm outside is a good preventative npmeasure if you want to reduce thus further.

The government publishes weekly NOIDS reports of numbers of cases of notfiabke diseases. Measles is up a bit in last year, but (mercifully) case numbers are still low. 14 new cases of measles reported on Inner London last week (notall yet lab confirmed) and nearly half were in Wandsworth. It's not that uncommon to have little outbreaks. But the worry is that if one grows to >30 cases, it can then multiply rapidly, especially in areas where vax uptake is low. And of course with the end of term fast approaching, if the rise in Wandsworth does not Peter out (as it so often does) incubating children can take the infection on all their Christmas family visits, so it could spread to other areas much more easily than in term time

Most adult anti vaxxers will have been immunised themselves as infants. The anti- vax movement is relatively new. So I would not be concerned about them.

I would not want them bringing any non immunised children though.

Eek!

Discount one vote of YABU I pressed the wrong button!

Do not let them anywhere near your newborn baby xxx

I would ask them not to visit if I knew, I wouldn't take the risk.

For those saying that you don't know who in the general public is unvaccinated or for whom it has worn off, that is different than you taking the risk of exposing your baby to someone who you know for a fact isn't vaccinated.

Honestly i understand your concerns as a mum of a newborn but you could stay indoors forever on that basis. I think you just have to roll with it to be honest. Good luck with your little one.

I wouldnt let them round. There are measles outbreaks near where I live. I spoke to my doctor about it and they are seeing cases for the first time in their lives. Its mainly affecting unvaccinated children. If they catch it the risk of lifelong complications eg deafness is 1 in 15. It's not a risk I'd be willing to take.

The anti vax argument is that though good diet etc their children should be able to fight off any illnesses. Even they must acknowledge that a newborn wouldnt have the same immune system and be able to fight it off.

There is no added risk of an unvaccinated person passing on germs compared to a vaccinated person. Vaccines don’t stop you from picking up germs and passing them around, they just stop you from getting sick

You are correct to say that vaccines are not 100% perfect at preventing infection and shedding of the wild type disease- but I believe that the likelihood of an exposed vaccinated individual shedding virus is a lot lower than an exposed, unvaccinated individual. And also that if the vaccinated individual is shedding wild type virus post-exposure, they are likely to shed fewer virus particles, for a shorter time, than the unvaccinated individual.

How do you think smallpox was eradicated? If vaccine made no difference to shedding then we would still have to vaccinate everyone against smallpox forever even though there have been no clinical cases for about 40 years.

One in Seventy, I had no idea it was so high.
DC2 will be getting the MMR at 6 months, as we are planning to go to Italy in the summer and they have lots of measles atm.

DC2 is due in January, his parents are going home to the Phillipines for Christmas. DH has imposed a 2 week quarantine before they can visit the new born (His friends dad came back to England feeling fine once and then a few days later came down with either dengue or dysyntry...can't remember which one)

I kept my newborns away from mostly everyone regardless of vaccinated or not and practised good hygiene. Just because someone is vaccinated, doesn’t mean they cannot pass an illness they are vaccinated against on to a newborn.

For example, the whooping cough virus is present in the throat and mucus membranes of most vaccinated adults. It just lives there but the adults do not get sick because they are vaccinated. If the adult is sniffly or coughs. You then have their cold/cough virus with some added whopping cough virus going airborne or on their hands, being transmitted and infecting a newborn.

Someone being vaccinated doesn’t mean they can skip hand washing before holding a newborn or safely visit one when feeling slightly ill.

I do vaccinate my children because I believe the pros outweigh the risks.

What risks are those? The risk of being run over on the way to have your vaccination? Or the risk of a masked gunman running amok in the GP's surgery whilst you are there?

I think newborn is just to little in my opinion.

BF newborn has a bit of a boost from mum if mum's immunity is good (ie, had chickenpox and had other jabs) but it's not a dead cert.

I do believe all parents have a right to parent their children how they see fit including the right to choose vaccinations or not but I totally believe that vaccinations causes adults.

They wouldn't be near my baby. They can do what they like, but they'd have to accept not being near my baby.

I'd also probably think they're quite stupid so would be unable to be their friend.

I'm with the majority, I would not let them visit, not worth the risk. True friends will understand.

Your only job is to protect your precious new baby, not the feelings of an adult who now suffers the consequences of their (stupid IMO) decisions re vaccinations.

I wouldn’t let them near my baby.