To think it's odd when elderly parents vote for things that adversely affect their children and grandchildren?

[malificent7]

Take Brexit and people who lost their jobs as a result...just why?
And my dad. I tried explaining that the Tories cut the NHS bursary so now i will be 60, 000 in debt when i graduate and he just sai " so what?" and " labour brought in the student loan." Yes dad...and without a student loan i wouldn't be able to retrain at all and wpuld be sruck in a minimum wage, zeri hour vontract job.
It's like people know who they want to vote for and won't listen to others...even though i listen to his concerns on immigration( with his lovely immigrant dp sitting beside him.) Cognative dissonance at its finest!

The OP didn't say all elderly people do this, just that it's hard to understand the ones that do.
Take my MIL. Voted Brexit. All the reasons she has given for doing so are based on lies and false information. All of them. And a strange nostalgia for the days after WW2.
She doesn't believe in the welfare state. Thinks everyone should be able to put themselves up by their bootstraps and get on with it. I'm guessing that if the welfare state was abolished, she would still be expecting to get her state pension that she's paid in for? And that she would fund her DC's who currently get tax credits.
She thinks the NHS should be replaced with a private insurance scheme. Her family is littered with people with long term conditions etc. If we turned into America there'd be quite a few bankruptcies.
All this, because she was a very poor child, and she's now a fairly well off elderly lady with a final salary pension. X 2, a fully paid off house that cost pennies in the 60's, never had any student debt, has had a life time of free healthcare, education.
She cannot see that already her grandchildren will more thank likely never reach the situation she's in financially and the security that comes with it, and if she gets what she wants, they'll be far far worse off. Her going from poor child to here was entirely her own hard work.
Argh!!!!!

I had student loans (and a tiny grant in my first year) at university pre-1997, they weren’t a Labour thing, the Tories got rid of grants. (As PP said, grants weren’t going to be sustainable as more people went to university).

Re your main point, I think we all struggle to see things holistically and we tend to focus on things we understand - or think we do.

Personally I don’t think the older generation has a better understanding of the EU but because they remember a time before it they think they know more.

You only have to read threads on here to see how differently people prioritise when they decide who to vote for. Some literally don’t think beyond ‘me and my family’. Others have a hazy concept of ‘the country’, ‘the economy’, without linking those concepts to everyday reality. Others have fairly fixed beliefs about, for example, taxation, the extent to which govt should regulate/intervene, the free market - one of the reasons some voters are struggling to vote for their usual party in this election I think, as both Conservative and Labour manifestos are crap/problematic for different reasons - and are unlikely to change this overall view. Some voters, unfortunately, are in the ‘leopards ate my face’ category and will vote based on wanting to blame and punish others. This is the demographic that is such easy prey for the Mail, Express, etc.

Perhaps if you tried to talk to your father from a more nuanced perspective you’d get through. Instead of accusing him of being wrong, try to discuss politics in a more general way. People are often relieved when someone who supports a different party agrees with them about something. It fosters dialogue and understanding which can only be a good thing! Otherwise we get these polarised conversations which degenerate into swapping blame and insults, which help nobody.

I do think YANBU but don’t give up! In my family we vote for at least three different parties and we can all talk
about politics and get along. It’s healthy to discuss this stuff.

It's like people know who they want to vote for and won't listen to others...even though i listen to his concerns on immigration( with his lovely immigrant dp sitting beside him

You're a bit naive. Personal feelings for one migrant don't equate to opening the doors to millions!

My DH is the son of an immigrant from Europe, during the war. That doesn't mean I agree with unlimited numbers of migrants moving to a small island with limited resources, a stretched NHS, schools, roads, housing etc.

Hopeitcomeswithbatteries has hit the nail on the head about politicians causing inter generational strife. It keeps all of them left and right in jobs. I would ascertain it’s even more than unhelpful, it keeps the masses in check. Nothing like baby boomers and millennials blaming each other when in fact politicians actually decide our lives.

One of the Professors I worked with about 15 years ago said University was more like finishing school these days. I started working in higher education just before fees were introduced. Blair bowled up with his ridiculous plan of 50% in to higher education and I saw from the inside the slide downhill. I retired early, I see my DH and my ex colleagues struggling with the enormous rise in numbers with no extra resources and I see students getting less of an education because academics are stretched and can offer far less one to one and small group interaction.

It's all so much simpler when the 'other side' is just simply wrong. Isn't it?

This kind of black and white thinking is called 'splitting' in psychotherapy, and it's at the heart of so many spats, disagreements. Wars.

Maybe because they are not seeing the problems that families first hand?

My Tory voting parents turn a blind eye to it all because they are so deeply into the myth that the Tories are the best party, I don't think either of them have ever voted for anybody else - they aren't going to change now (they are in their mid-80s) unfortunately.

Agreed. I can't speak to my parents at all about Brexit or the election because it makes me not like them much (temporarily). They are both very militant leavers and conservative voters and I've actually tried to listen, but neither of them has given me one good argument as to why Brexit or the Conservatives are a good idea, or explained to me why the adverse effects of both, on my kids and I,don't matter.

Many people have one rule for themselves and a different for others. It's very common. No one thinks the policy they back that will screw over young people/ill people/you name it will screw over their loved ones who are young or ill.

Look at Nigel Farage and Donald Trump, spewing anti-immigrant sentiment while married to immigrants themselves.

A parliamentary term is only 5 years. Even someone in their 90s might vote now and live to see the next general election. The idea that their stake in society is reduced by their age is preposterous. It undermines the very idea of democracy. Even if someone is at death's door (regardless of age) they are alive now and any civilised country will recognise the importance of ensuring they enjoy the same basic rights as everyone else, including being able to express their opinion at the ballot box. I really don't understand where this 'my opinion os more valid than your opinion' mindset has come from. It is the slippery slope to autocracy and needs to be nipped in the bud.

My pil are like that they both voted brexit want to keep the tories in at this ge. Mil is worse came round the other day brought it up and proceeded to argue with her son when he had different views and opinions on why he voted remain and why he won't vote for the tories. Honestly they haven't thought about how they aren't just voting for themselves they are also voting and shaping the future their 6 month granddaughter will grow up in

I think it's a different way of assessing policy priorities as well as the trade offs of those policies.

My PiLs voted for the Conservative party in the 2015 election, because of their promise to cut inheritance tax. PiLs are not rich, but do own a house in the SE that has significantly increased in value since they bought it in the 1980s. However, my PiLs are in their early 60s, there is a good chance they'll live for another 20 years before my partner & his sibling will inherit the family home. In the mean time we (partner & I, BiL) are paying at least 1/3 of our income on rent, little chance of saving enough to put down a deposit, and are thoroughly fed up of being ripped off by agency fees, the lack of security when renting, etc.

So while PiLs voted Conservatives on the basis of being able to pass on their home in the future, partner & his brother voted Labour in the hope for better rights for renters & opportunities for first time buyers.

Murray this is my problem with my in-laws. They can’t put forward one argument for Brexit, well they could but they know better than to be openly racist. I respect anyone’s opinion based on an expression of an argument but they literally just voted for brexit because “it’s obviously right”. Full stop.

they did it because they think that is what's best for their children/ grandchildren I voted remain as I think that's what's best.

I think that's much more common than lots of remainers like to think. It's easy to blame a generation for the shit show that we're in now and sweeping generalisations do just that.

I'm a remainer by the way and I'm worried sick about the future. I know many people (obviously) who voted leave and lots of them are much younger than you may expect.

they probably remember the 70's when we had a hard left government. High inflation, high interest rates, high unemployment, massive national debt, lots of strikes and sitting in the dark without your rubbish being collected. Maybe they dont want that for their kids. I dont.

My mother voted leave, causing much upset to my sons who are alarmed about their futures, despite being employed graduates. She voted that way because she said that was what she wanted. she promptly died soon after the vote, having voted to F* up my children's future. I'm afraid she was very racist and this was her main reason, she didn't understand that the people she was so prejudiced against were mainly born here and as British as her, and certainly their presence had nothing to do with the EU. Sadly it has coloured my view of her at a time I should be looking back with happy memories.

It's like people know who they want to vote for and won't listen to others.

Erm, ever heard of democracy?

The funny thing is that I haven't heard older people complaining young people don't know who to vote for or that they vote selfishly. They seem to respect that everyone makes the best decision they can.
I find younger people's lack of respect for different generations, the constant pilloring of older people and the lazy, ageist stereotypes, very disheartening.

Yes I find it weird too. Not my mother bless her but elderly aunt who voted for brexit and votes conservative - a woman with no children who has never worked in her life, has never had a mortgage due to inheritance, never went to university and rarely leaves her house. 11 children in the next generation after mine, all fucked over by people like her.

@dreamingofsun
Not wanting to spoil your rhetoric, but the 3 day week, and limited access to power was brought in by Ted Heath in 1973, the recession was in no small part to the OPEC oil crises and the minor's strike was well underway when Harold Wilson and Labour came to power in 1974

I know there is this lovely idea that that UK was rich and happy under the Tories until the socialists came and wrecked it but they came to power in the midst of an economic crisis and managed to reestablish economic growth in 1975, albeit with an IMF bailout.

They were also succeeded by Thatcher who saw the UK unemployment rise to the highest levels ever recorded and it was not until theearly 2000s where these levels dropped to where they had been under the Labour government of the 1970.

We are old and we discussed everything with our grandchildren before we voted. We explained it was their future we were voting for. We also watched every debate and read as much as possible (not the Daily Mail). We were heartbroken at the result.

@JinglingHellsBells

McDonnell was sacked from the GLC ( you will be too young to know what that was I expect) under Ken Livingstone (who was a hard lefty) for bankrupting it.

That's funny, because wikipedia quotes Livingstone as saying “He had an absolute grasp for detail and every year he produced a balanced budget, no borrowing.” And says that they fell out over the use of budget figures for political aims. The times also reports they fell out for McDonnell being "too radical". Even the daily mail reports that the GLC was "‘awash’ with cash that had previously been budgeted and unspent under McDonnell’s watch as Head of the Finance Committee."

You can disagree with McDonnell's approach or economics, but to claim he was sacked for bankrupting the GLC seems to be completely untrue.

Crackerofdoom is correct.

@thehag - the NHS bursary also covered all tuition fees.

I'm a childless daughter of two immigrant parents. I vote Labour even though I may have to pay a smidgeon more tax as I earn over £85K - however, the trade off is a properly funded public sector where all children receive a good education and where people don't die on trolleys in A&E.

I'm also a school governor at a primary school in a deprived area. In the last decade the level of deprivation in that area has increased: we now have double the national average number of children on FSM; we have children who are desperately in need of an EHCP who can't have one because the LA can't afford it - which of course is having a detrimental effect on the school as it means we are having to pay for the support that they need whilst being on the verge of bankruptcy; due to the changes in the funding formula we are unable to employ enough support staff for children who have additional needs; we have children who should be on a CP plan downgraded to CIN because the LA haven't got the capacity and resources to protect them. We are not an isolated case. I've spoken to governors of other schools - even in the true blue SW and parts of the SE who are experiencing similar.

My parents grew up in east Germany and what was then Czechoslavakia so have lived under real communist regimes. My mother is dead now but my father is an ardent Labour supporter and remainer who fears the rise of fascism and racism in this country - and the wider world.

He, and I, think that it is interesting that what is classed as far left socialism here is normal centrist politics elsewhere.

I do judge those people who say they care about society voting for Tories. I also judge those people for whom a Tory government would mean cuts to their benefits and support voting Tory. I may be bitter, but I just feel that if that's what they want then get on with it, but I'm sure as hell not donating any more to homeless charities or foodbanks. Maybe that makes me as selfish as a Tory voter - but I'll live with it.

not all pensioners voted Brexit … not all under 40's voted remain … (I voted the same way both times & was happy the first time but now? I despair...)