To have realised why I can't vote Labour in the GE!

[WindFlower92]

I feel that I've got to preface this by saying I'm a Labour supporter, and hate the thought of voting for BJ and his cronies.

However, me and DH were talking earlier - given how divisive JC is, and obviously Brexit also, do Labour supporters really want Labour to be the ones dealing with Brexit? I'm just thinking of how damaging it could be to them in future elections, and if they 'mess it up', they might not be elected for decades to come. Then we'd be stuck with the Tories! Think back to the Lib Dems coalition; no one my age would ever dream of voting for them even with NC gone; could this happen to Labour if they scrap Brexit, or put us through another however many years of negotiations?

For this reason I'm now thinking keep Conservative in for the next couple of years, let them deal with Brexit and tarnish their reputation, and then we can have a decade of Labour to follow as they'll be seen as the better option.

Is this crazy?

For voting purposes - yes if I'm speaking any sense!

Yeah that’s crazy sorry. The election is about a hell of a lot more than brexit.

Five more years of the Tories will have too much impact on the poorest.
I can't imagine the damage they will do, it's not all Boris it's who pulls his strings.
Far too risky if we want any society left.

As PP said, brexit is not all politics is about

I just feel so worried about whether Labour have promised too much and won't be able to deliver any of it. And then what?

Yeah I agree with TheQueef There's an element of "They made this mess they should deal with the consequences". But another five years and we'll be even more screwed.

A, it's not all about Brexit B, are you fucking kidding me? Conservative government has done Bollock all the "get Brexit done"

Makes no sense at all. I question why you call yourself a labour supporter, yet think they can't handle negotiations. Maybe you just need to admit to yourself that your a tory.

At least we are fairly sure Labour will attempt their promises Flower this bunch in gov are so obviously making money from this chaos do we trust the Tories not to be lining their own pockets?

I do hear what you're saying, and if it were the only issue I would agree with you.

But it's not. As a disabled person I honestly don't know how I will cope with another five years of being treated like shit. And I'm fortunate to have people that look after me (because there's bugger all support from the NHS or social care), but there are so many people who are vulnerable for all sorts of reasons and they are on their own.

We need to give people some hope for a better, kinder future.

Remember that what Labour has promised is a long term plan, initial investment that reaps rewards which are in turn reinvested. That is why it is a realistic plan, there's a lot of spending there but it's not all at once, tackle the (admittedly many) bigger issues first, then when they are conquered the less important things will flow far more easily.

I'm finding your reasoning quite incoherent, sorry. Boris Johnson has voted against Brexit twice now when it was a proposition put forward by Theresa May and her team. He has no more interest in 'getting brexit done' than he does in singing 'the wheels on the bus go around around around'. His only interest is in taking tax payers money out of the economy into the offshore accounts of his cronies.

If we were in a better state, you might have a good point. But with the state of the NHS, 10 years of Austerity etc. we don’t have the luxury of letting them cock it up. So ikwymbyabu.

You may have a point.

But Brexit is the only thing that matters to me in this election (and I think, to many other people). I am a Lib Dem member (think there are many of us around the age you're talking about, it's not unthinkable at all) and will vote Lib Dem in my Con/LD marginal but I would vote for whichever of Labour, Lib Dem or Green had the most chance of keeping the Tories out in my constituency. Purely because I don't want to see a hard Brexit (or preferably any Brexit). Any other policy can be reversed by a future government.

I know what you mean, but the Tories getting back in now is a very real possibility. Compare that to the 'well, what if...' scenario you've outlined and I would rather vote to mitigate an immediate risk than an imagined one.

The Tories will cause far too much damage if they get back in. We need to stop them now.

OP I agree with your sentiment.

This is why Boris has called an election now.

Because he wants to “get brexit done” at the start of his new term. Then hopes that any damage won’t be too bad by the time we have another election in 4-5 years time.

Theresa May tried the same tactic by calling an election. Unfortunately for her and everyone, getting Brexit done isn’t that easy.

So here we are.

The best we can hope for is that the Tories get in, fuck up brexit and need to call an election sooner rather than later.

But I too am worried for those who are poor, or in local authority care (young and old) because I can see quite clearly just how badly these services are holding up due to central government cuts (local authorities were actually mainly funded by central government not council tax. This is how the Tories have got away with cutting so much funding as people blame their councils for service failure, library closure etc).

So YANBU but I can’t bear the idea of more Tories. My children have been educated under the Tories and their schools are crumbling. It’s disgusting.

I think your thinking around this is convoluted and rather illogical actually.
Elections aren't an intellectual exercise, they are an opportunity to shape the future of the country.

Brexit is not at the centre of my thinking this election. I live near a city that has been decimated by 10 years of Austerity.
I work with people who are struggling to stay afloat, for whom heat and light is a luxury.
I see people in work, sometimes working two jobs, depending on foodbanks.
I speak to people who, while desperately ill, struggle, sometimes from their hospital beds, to get to benefits appointments as they live in terror of sanctions.
I talk to young people and their families trying to access support for mental health issues from services that have been continually under-funded by the imposition of cuts to the NHS and social care.
I talk to teachers who know their pupils are coming to school hungry every day.
Those teachers are managing classrooms that are not fit for purpose, with children who need more specialised support than a whole classroom teacher can give.
I myself am a WASPI woman, one of those denied our pensions and forced to work longer than we had planned or saved for.
I see people struggling with getting to work because of the high costs of public transport and the dire state of the privatised bus services.

This country, one of the richest on this planet, should not be like this. All our citizens should be valued and supported to make a contribution to our communities. No one should be hungry or cold or scared.

So while you tactically vote, there would be more added every day to the 4million children in poverty.
More disabled people going through hideous and humiliating assessments, losing their benefits and let's be plain, dying.
Life expectancy is falling, mental health issues are more prevalent than ever...I could go on...

The Welfare State and the NHS have served this country well, so many of us have benefitted from the post-war settlement. Be in no doubt, those who see benefit only in profit and money are poised to see our NHS become a market system like the US.
How will you feel if you and yours need to show the colour of your money or your insurance before you are treated?
Labour are fully committed to strengthen the NHS and social care services.

Labour's manifesto has been fully costed. As this Article in Financial Times says the plans have been supported by 163 leading economists.

Labour's plan for Brexit is straightforward; negotiations with the EU to include a new customs union, guarantee of rights and protections, no hard border with Ireland.
Then the people will decide on a definite choice, not vague sound bites

Please I beg you don't be misled by the anti-Corbyn rhetoric of mainstream media. Jeremy Corbyn will fight for the people of this country, for fairness and equality. As a Labour Supporter you have surely watched his speeches and those of the members of the Shadow Cabinet, inspiring and forward thinking, seeking to create a country that values all of us.

Please vote for Hope on the 12th.
.

If Labour do not make it this time into a hung parliament, hopefully if we do have a Tory government again soon, all BJ's promises will soon be dust, and voters will realise at last that they have been duped and the conservatives cannot be trusted. Labour may then have a chance at another election. Its a long time to wait, though. I am still hoping they will break through this time.

Brexit is not at the centre of my thinking this election

It is for Boris Johnson though. That’s the point I think - a winter election is very unusual. It’s all about trying to win power at the most opportune time for Boris.

There is a real risk that labour will be tarnished by Brexit if they win because it will damage the economy and any good they want to do just won’t be possible. It’s the same with the 2008 financial crisis. People still claim that labour were the reason that the economy tanked - they’d forgotten about Northern Rock (people queuing for their money!!), the Lehman’s bank, the credit crunch....

Can anyone really see Corbyn on the World stage, talking to leaders, holding his own? Negotiating a new deal on Brexit when he has no interest in the process personally?
Do you want Diane Abbott as home secretary? Someone who thinks our security services should be done away with? It’s bloody terrifying.
This is a man who is pro IRA and makes excuses for the Russians re the Salisbury poisonings. Not to mention not being able to control the anti Semite’s in his party.
He’s all talk. Put him in Govt and there will be absolute chaos before the year is out.
Also he’ll be agreeing a referendum in Scotland before the year is out too.

Have courage you are absolutely on target. JC as a negotiator would be a disaster. It isnt all about Brexit but we and businesses cannot waffle on any longer. A hung parliament would leave us where we are. Labour is making promises we cannot fund. In 1970 it was truly awful when the Unions thought they were tinpot dictators. It was the poor that took the brunt of it all.Dont kid yourself that somepoliticians dont lie or make false promises, they all do. The uncertainty is what is doing the damage. I dont like the tories but we have to move to the next stage and neither libdems or labour can do that

Labour is making promises we cannot fund

What about the Tory promises???

You’re crazy. If you care at all about any public services then voting for the conservatives is ridiculous

Can anyone really see Corbyn on the World stage, talking to leaders, holding his own?

Far more readily than Johnson, yes. At least he'd turn up, be polite and not waffle absolute pish.

The NHS won’t last another 5 years under the tories

You’ve got so many assumptions in there I won’t even begin to try and unpick them.
If you are happy with the idea of Boris Johnson as prime minister then vote conservative, if not look at the candidate most likely to succeed in your area and vote tactically. You say you’re a labour supporter, so voting to keep the Tories in power seems bizarre - things could play out very differently than you think.